'official' discussion: SAMs, legal issues

[Falconer]

Over the last couple of days, two members have been PMing me about their differences of opinion regarding the SAMs project. Reading through more lines of text than I have ever seen in my PM box, one thing struck me the most: here are two very talented individuals, infinitely valuable for the Railroads! community, who could potentially work miracles if they'd work together!

With this thread I hope to get some clarity on the topic. Before participating in the discussion, read the following carefully:

1. Intentions/legal stance
- It is my intention to bring the parties closer together.
- It is -not- my intention to judge/condemn.
- Hooked Gamers will not allow illegal materials on the sites. We may not always immediately recognize files as such, but when we do, they will be deleted.
- We currently do not see the modding threads in the forums as doing anything illegal. Should 2K see it differently and contact us, we will oblige their requests to remove offending materials.

2. Modding Railroads
- Railroads! was meant to be modded, the game was designed that way. The extent of the modding is more or less up to the community.
- A mod instantly ceases to be a mod when you can download and play the game without having to buy the original game first.
- Mods should always be free, selling them or making money on them is generally deemed illegal by the creator of the game.

3. Posting rules
- Keep it civil.
- Keep your replies to under 200 words to keep it readable (and don't reply to your own posts hehe).
- We're not looking for blame or finger pointing here, we're looking for answers. Phrase your replies as such.

Okay, with that out of the way, let's begin with a simple question:

Do the SAMs (or even SMRI for that matter), infringe on anything that was said at point 2?

[snoopy55]

Party??? Did someone mention a Party?????

1st I'll clarify SMRI as I did have a part in it. SMRI was done to make a single download so 10 maps could be installed, Mods and all. Simple.

SAMs consists nothing more than taking a map and rewriting the contents so that GLOBALs are no longer needed, thus cutting down the amount of data loaded by the game. To load all the possible Mods when only one is needed wastes memory, which the game eats like a kid does candy. While a program to preview and install them would be nice, it is not required. The reason none have been posted is that it is an all or nothing thing. When all existing maps are SAMed and a tutorial explaining how to make SAMs is done, they will be posted.

We simply are not sure of all of the mechanics of them yet, and to post a fraction of untested materials is unwise. I've atempted to answer all questions, and will continue to do so.

[Tijer]

I guess this is where I chime in on this subject. When Snoopy and I concieved of the plan for SAM, the objective of the project was to cut the loaded content of the game to just what is required to run the game. My version of the project is more extensive then what Snoopy's version contains since all content is removed from the game except what is needed to run the map. This includes music, fx, animations and anything else not needed for the map. This includes recomilation of the original game maps. This would be done to remove excess content. Since some people have problems with even those maps.

Next in the scope of SAM is the use of the recomplated maps. Installation would require the placement of two folders. One on each side of the game, Program Files and the other in My Games. When faced with a complaint that the player would have to drop out of the game to switch maps, I conceived of the possability of creating an unoffical patch that would allow all content to be left in place. Another words, the SAM XML for the SAM maps would be accessed by name from the current front end. Currently the game reads and loads all of the content listed in the XML located in the Program Files side of the game. When it reads the My Games side it retains the data from the Program Files side even if the data is not needed. It does this because the Program files side are listed as RRT_xxx.xml and the My Games side is listed as RRT_xxx(map name).xml. This causes all data to be loaded and only half of it is being used. In the case of the stock maps the data is copied twice but only uses half.

Now, never has it been stated that the forum would only accept SAM maps or that such maps would have to be purchased. Nor has it ever been stated that a person would have to use SAM in any way. For that matter a person could continue to do things just as they have been doing. It has also never been stated that the above mentioned patch would ever be created or be required to be installed. It is being presented as a possible solution to a minor inconvience.

In total this is a brief discription of the SAM project. As well, many of the benefits are still be discovered. As Snoopy has stated the the project is still developing, but I see nothing that we are doing that is in violation of the EULA or a reason for us to be threatened. If you see something then please make us aware of it.

[Lowell]

This has nothing to do with SAMs or how people make their maps. If you post a "Program" that is used to run the game, that is illegal. My maps "are" a type of SAM map, but different. Your SAM maps are what everyone will need for the game to run correctly...it's too crammed up with content.

You also cut out several sentences so things would "sound" the way you wanted people to think. Maybe I should post the whole PM so everyone can read what parts you cut out. I never threatened you or SAMs. SAMs are what the game needs. But "fixing" the games EXE troubles, or building a program that is used to run the game is out. Manually change your maps in and out, then everything is fine.

When I sent that message I was telling you that my new style is similar, but runs crash free on any large map, even told you that I would post the files so you could see for yourself that a 20x20 sized map can play fast and crash free. I've done this to several maps that are large and have been known to crash during game play, they all play through crash free.

These new map files are a single file...not even a FPK to loose or mess with. Take the single file folder place it in user maps and run the game. These maps must be installed in a Clean Game. Right out of the box even without the Fraxis update. They run great.

But instead of helping me, you decided to get everyone on your side for some strange reason. I can't figure out why you are so mad...you should be jumping up and down thinking hey...the game can be crash free forever. Nope... I think maybe you might be mad because of all the work you have done and somehow I just trashed it and fixed everything behind you. That's not true. See, my style of map making is...made just like the Fraxis Santa Holiday Scenario. I added a couple global files inside with the maps files. This way I load only from the games industries that I need.

The large maps now use Less system memory than they did. We even tried to crash out the largest map...after four play throughs we could not get the game to crash. I even played it through Th first two Eras and didn't even do one save. That is several hours of building and playing.

Programs or EXE changes need to go through 2K Games. This time tell them you are making a program that will load and unload the games content and see what they say. SAM maps are what the game needs...the other items are not allowed. I hope this time you see what I have been telling you. EXE changes...Programs... that is what we are talking about here. I would Love to have a program that would put maps in and take them out...but my talks with Craig (2K Games) says that they would not allow that. I was only trying to overt disaster and let you know there was a simpler way.

I will have the files ready after a few more edits as the Holidays took much of my time, I hope everyone had a good Holiday. I would like it if you guys would at least "try" the files after I'm done, I will post the files for testing before they get posted at the forum.

[Falconer]

Okay, so keeping it short was apparently too difficult, and so was not pointing fingers.

I'm going to close this thread for now to try and think what to do next.