A discussion on SAM maps....

[snoopy55]

SAM maps

I'm doing them for the forum, and a bit for myself. Sixteen months ago I got an idea for doing a Central Mexico map. Since then I have spent maybe 2 months on it total. The most of it has been in the last month. Why? Because to make the SAMs I had to do the Building Blocks. To do those I had to tear apart the existing maps. Then I had to build the maps as SAMs. I also found ways to edit the DDSs for the Engines and TrainCars to keep the original textures while changing the colors, thus allowing me to make a lot of new stuff. And this has helped me do the majority of my map.

As I stated, you don't start at the top and work down, unless it's a cake , you start at the bottom and work up. I have had no real complaints about what I'm doing by any of the mappers. And even if I had, once posted they are open to anyone to use them. And changes? If someone thinks it looks OK to use a Smelter as a Transfer Station, just let me know and I'll make a version for you built that way. We have had people who wanted to make new things in their maps and didn't have the needed skills, so they took what they could. I have built things for mappers in the past and continue to do so in new maps. So I continue to do so in older maps. If there is a real problem, I'll rename the SAM and call it my version, but I would rather give the credit to the mapper who created it. If he or she has a heavy problem with it, they can PM me or Email me and I'll delete it from the forum, no problem, at least from me.

And the time I use to do this is my time, leave me to use it as I wish. There may be now or in the future maps that I think are stupid and useless, but that isn't for me to decide what should and should not be posted. Some may think that my Wisconsin map was useless. Let them. Some time ago tomasvicente38 wrote a map and less than 12 days and two posts later an exact version of it was posted with only a few minor changes, and no one complained, including Tomas. So please, leave me to what I'm doing, let me learn and try to help others to learn the same. Ask Jancsika how he likes them....

And one other thing... refer to the people working on these as Snoopy Inc. I'm not doing these alone. There is also my cohort in creation, Tijer, our BB and map tester, Jancsika, our map tester, vzbob, and the latest addition as a tester, Pete. They all deserve as much credit, if not more as they tend to keep me on my toes.

[karsten]

I have an approach to avoid messy multiple map threads on my Ancient Gold thread: it may keep the thread tidy, while still offering people plenty of opportunity to comment on a specific map, if they so desire. Check it out here if you are interested.

[snoopy55]

deleted

[Lowell]

Nobody is saying no to Sam maps. I was only saying out of respect, those should be added to the main thread of each map you convert. There are too many threads with the same maps. That will totally confuse people and the map maker who comes back after several months of being gone, won't see that there is a Sam version of their map if they don't see it on "their map thread" they built.
I believe that is being done right now, it is fine to have a separate list as you have done, but place a copy on the maps thread that the mapmaker made. Then as the public responds to the Sam map file, it will also show up on the maps main thread from where it was made.
Most who take maps and make modifications to them, alter the maps name somewhat, to show there it is a different map from what was first made. You copied the name and all and converted the files. If you "truly" did not make changes to the original maps play style, then place a SAM after the maps name. I am sure the old global map files will still be on most map threads.
...and yes...no more global maps that have new content added, default maps that use the games default goods, industries and trains etc. are fine in a group package.
Read through that post again and you will see all I am saying is respect the player and map maker, different maps with the same name is wrong, and the Sams CICs or whatever, if they are a copy of the named project...they belong on the thread the map maker made...otherwise you can change the map/mod name and make a new map thread.
I don't think that is asking too much, to respect the hard work others have done.
What started it was making a Sam map out of Utah which was made as a stand alone map the day it was posted, and the Sam version was crashing at map start...the old version didn't crash. Then a player posted that the files were crashing and you said to them that they must not like the state of Utah. I don't think Univerisum would have ever said a smart remark to a player in trouble with his map. So his project was misrepresented and the player wasn't posting the question on the thread where the mapmaker who built the files could respond to the player. It is almost like they were copied and reposted on a different web site to where they were "hidden" from the mapmaker’s eyes and comments.
We have had stand-alone maps for more than a year now and nobody paid any attention to what Univerisum was saying. Even when I stated that my new CIC version of stand-alone maps were made off of the Utah files, you still said that the Utah map wasn't a stand-alone map. After I said many times that is was a stand-alone map already.
I have no issue with making Sam versions of maps, they need to be made with the respect of the map makers map thread in mind though...people need to comment to the mapmaker. When they post a question they want to hear it from the builder nobody else.

I believe those Sams are being placed on the map threads now by the new admin...I give a great big thanks to Tazz for doing that.

That is all I have been trying to say about this issue, lets not jump off the bridge and get carried away with this...and let's not make stand-alone maps of maps that are already stand-alone please and if you can't tell if they are stand alone then ask first...or...if they play as a stand alone, leave it alone.
Some maps use the Euro trains, the game doesn't have tenders for those trains, and several of those maps like the Liverpool map as I call it, never had tenders as they look funny on the euro engines. If you "add" items to maps and name them the same name you just distroyed what the map maker spent time on and didn't want on their project.

[snoopy55]

I started this thread to pull a discussion of SAMs off of a thread about Stickies, but alas, it has become a waste of time. I have said my part, and the complaints have been answered and Tazz is reposting the SAMs to the original Maps thread, so I think it is time to end it all here and now. My posts have been deleted, here and on the Sticky Poll thread.

[Jancsika]

What I suggest to both Lowell and Snoopy to delete their posting from this thread. (Rigth now)
It is futile and nobody will read them.
Please, please!

And I would like to hear from other members about this ongoing nonsense!
Jancsika

[Lowell]

Everything has been corrected, so you don't need to bother talking anymore about this issue. Forum rules/educate were not being followed as to people's posted named work...those files were moved to the main threads for each map.

[snoopy55]

Everything has been corrected, so you don't need to bother talking anymore about this issue. Forum rules/educate were not being followed as to people's posted named work...those files were moved to the main threads for each map.

No, I don't think things are Ok. Sorry people, now I'm being accused of breaking 'rules/educate' that, for some weird unknown reason, the Administrators didn't see. Until this and the above accusations are removed and these 'rules/educates' have been explained to me, I'm stopping the conversions and postings. Every time Lowel makes a post, the reasons change, even in the same post. I want to know what this is all about, then I will request this whole thread be deleted.

[vzbob]

Everything has been corrected, so you don't need to bother talking anymore about this issue. Forum rules/educate were not being followed as to people's posted named work...those files were moved to the main threads for each map.

Where are these Rules/educate posted Ive never seen any after searching the forums.

[Burlington_Northern_3140]

I think the rules were in the sign up.

[Jancsika]

Hey people! There are really no other rules then basic human decency. As long as everybody is following it, we can not go wrong.
How about it?
Jancsika

[karsten]

It is also the role of the moderators to step in when people are being attacked. Some of the insults thrown at Lowell were quite inexcusable. I admire his restraint given all the mud certain members were slinging at him.
Thankfully, that now seems a thing of the past.

[Pete]

It is also the role of the moderators to step in when people are being attacked. Some of the insults thrown at Lowell were quite inexcusable. I admire his restraint given all the mud certain members were slinging at him.
Thankfully, that now seems a thing of the past.

I wish it WAS a thing of the past, but posts like this just keep it going.
Enough!!

Because of a turkey of a game in the begining; the constant bickering about how to fix it; We've lost most of of our key mapmakers, and any new player that shows up just shakes his head and disappears.
This isn't fun anymore.
Please; everyone; we have a solution for the game problems; lets concentrate on that.
The SAM system works.
Nobody's maps are being stolen......From all I've seen, the makers have said "take my map and and improve it if you wish; some have said the same, asking only that they get credit for the original map.
With the SAM's being posted with the original map, what more do we need?
What's been said in the past is history.
I don't want to hear it anymore, and neither does anyone else.
Let all those comments fall to the bottom with the Stickys, and lets get on with something constructive. We're adults; people; lets act that way.

There's not many of us left.
If we pull our act together, maybe some of the original mapmakers will return, along with some new blood.
If we don't......will the last person to leave, please turn out the lights.

Pete

[Rodea2007]

Nobody's maps are being stolen......From all I've seen, the makers have said "take my map and and improve it if you wish; some have said the same, asking only that they get credit for the original map.
Pete

I agree with you Pete....
For me If my map was launch in the forum, all people can use and edit if their wish, but just don't forget to give me some credit......

[Tactician]

well im hopefully gonna be posting some of my maps soon, when i think they are up to par, i have a few maps already created, justa bit of trouble trying to figure out how to make the goals for them, i really dont know what your argueing about but it wont scare me away however i must add i HATE those maps that you have to delete every other map to play, thats nothing but a hassel, and i have refused to even try them out, none of my maos will be that way, i dont think that is necessary for a good map, nothig but a big hassel