Question about Dual Locs.

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Bushdoctor
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Question about Dual Locs.

Post by Bushdoctor » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:27 pm

Gday,

What makes the dual locs appear as dual locs in the game, visually I mean.
I have tried to figure this out with help of the xml files but both the single loc
and the dual loc refer to the same kfm image file.
Where is the instance that tells the game to place that same graphic in front of eachother.

I tried to do a search for this on the forum, but hey: It's the phpbb search. Nuff said.

Any info or link is welcome.
Thanks.

snoopy55
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Post by snoopy55 » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:31 pm

Basicly, and someone can go more into depth, thay are nothing but tenders. You take a loco, put the files into a tender block of code, and tell the game thats the 'tender' for that loco.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

Bushdoctor
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Post by Bushdoctor » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:10 pm

Hmm. I did miss the tender tag at the very bottom.
That's worth doing some experimenting with.

I already ran into a problem.
The train scenario file that I'm working with only mentions the names of the trains.
When I replace for example the normal and dual Pacific name-entries
with the full entries copied from the global trains file, the map crashes
when loading.
Why?
I assumed that the name-entries refered to the full entries so I don't
understand why the map crashes when I replace the name with the full entry.

snoopy55
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Post by snoopy55 » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:12 pm

Yes, those tender lines all need to ba at the same position in those Blocks. Gotta look into that.........

As to the partial to full replacements. Do them one at a time. Also, make sure you are getting it all. When I do a replacement I would do from <Trains> to </Trains>, including those lines. If you get into doing it that way, all the time, you have less chnace of missing lines or doubling lines. And doing them one at a time, while being slow, lets you be more sure of yourself. Set the start datre after the date of the engines you are working with, and it's quicker to check things out. 1/2000 to 12/2010 works great. Use only one era in your Scenario file until you get the map running smoothly, then place the Victory settings back in.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

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Lowell
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Post by Lowell » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:30 am

If your train already exists in a global entry...only use the Tag_Name of the loco in your trains list. List NO tenders on your Maps_Trains Cars list "If the tender Pacific already exists in the global train cars list."...Unless you have made a new type Tender...erase those entries that the game made for Tenders on your trains list when it made the scenario...they do not go there and "can" cause crashes. List only "new" tenders made there. Also remove all those Basin and Range trains if they are not on your map...clean out your trains list first.

Then, if you re-name an engine with a new name give your map a full listing, otherwise as siad only list the tag name. Use the Tender script line to add a dual unit. Diesels will have a B-Unit that faces the other way...steam trains do not have a reversed engine...they both face forward.

To get newly made engines names to pop-up in the RoundHouse...place their Tag_Name in the Names list..."see Santa map from Fraxis" files. Look at how the Holiday Engine was made/listed.

I have a dual Pacific...don't use it though...but if you don't have one made in your global trains list, make a new full listing in your Maps_Trains list, renaming it as Dual or something...then...you need to make a "new" Tender for the Pacific Dual, that gets listed as a Tender in the Train Cars list.

snoopy55
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Post by snoopy55 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:14 am

Lowell, evedently he has a reason for doing it that way, just like you have a reason for doing things your way. The idea is to find out 'why' it did not work. That requires backing up and making entries one at a time until the problem entry is found.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

Bushdoctor
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Post by Bushdoctor » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:34 am

Yes, I see what you're saying Lowell, but I think I'm not there yet.
First I need to understand a few more things.

Perhaps I've got the wrong approach to this, so feel free to tell me.
My plan was to change certain values for the existing trains like cost,
starting date, power etc
and I figured that I needed to do that in RRT_Trains_<map>.xml

Here is what I did sofar. I started with an empty file, just the start and end tag.
Then I copied 3 existing trains and their duals to my file.
I changed nothing, tried to run the map and that worked.

Then I went on to change the starting dates on those trains and some
other things. I figured they needed to appear as 'new' trains to the game
and so I also changed their names. TAG_NAME_MIKADO, for example
became TAG_NAME_RIFT_MIKADO.

This didn't work. The map crashes when loading.
Where did I already go wrong?

edit- Hmm Lowell, you're talking about a Names list. I didn't see anything
like that yet, so that could be my solution. I'm gonna dig into that.

edit2- Do you mean the RRT_Names_<map>.xml file Lowell? I only see city entries there. I can probably figure out how to enter Trains though... That's my solution?

edit3- Yes it is. Sweet. The Santa scenario did indeed give me good info.

Thanks for the help guys. When this part works I'm moving on to creating a new Dual.
I'll probably screw up there aswell, so keep an eye on this topic please. ;)

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Lowell
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Post by Lowell » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:23 am

Bushdoctor wrote:
I figured they needed to appear as 'new' trains to the game
and so I also changed their names. TAG_NAME_MIKADO, for example
became TAG_NAME_RIFT_MIKADO.

This didn't work. The map crashes when loading.
Where did I already go wrong?
Just don't change the Tag Name. Place the regular tag name for the loco in your map. Then add the couple lines for the start date and costs with your changed numbers added. The default trains will appear on your map with your settings. The whole listing is not needed. If you recolor the train or edit the model and need to rename the whole train, then you would need a whole listing, but to use the default engine on a map, you can use just the lines you need off of the global model.

Changing the Tag Name "without" a full new train listing is what caused the crash. Now...I know that the start date can be added to a default engine list and the changes stick...not too sure about the Maintenance Costs though...messing with the speed or other global settings I know you would have to rebuild the full list.

<Train>
<szName>TAG_NAME_NORRIS_DUAL</szName>
<Year>2008</Year>
<Cost>80000</Cost>

<MaintenanceCost>1000</MaintenanceCost> :?:
</Train>

<szTenderCar>Norris Dual</szTenderCar>
"we're talk'in some serious power here..." :)

That is all you need if you aren't building a whole new model...like the Mud Trains for example. I thought you were making a whole new unique engine, so the full listing isn't needed.

Maybe Snoopy or someone else might know the list of settings that can be changed without rebuilding the engine's full list. I only know of these couple...after that I just rebuild the whole thing.

snoopy55
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Post by snoopy55 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:27 pm

Any of the variables can be changed. The one that matters is the tag name, because without it, SMR does not know where to go for the unchanged variables. Even a change in the KFM and NIF files can be done, but it will only show up in your map. If you go so far as to change the name of the engine, then you do have to list all the lines as Lowell said, BUT, you also have to give it a display name in the maps RRT_Names XML, otherwise the game cannot dispplay its name. As we have had some Mods that were missing names in the past, the map may still work, but an engine in the roundhouse without a kinda looks like one to stay away from..... :roll: You may even be able to give an engine a name you want with the same tag name as the map since it 'should' look to your Name file for names, then the GLOBALS for any unfound. Since you are doing only one, you might like to try that and let us know if it works. Give it a name like "Don't Buy Me!" and see if it shows up. Do this after you know it works as is, and without any other changes just to make sure it's not causeing a problem.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

snoopy55
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Post by snoopy55 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:02 pm

I just did a test myself, and was upset cause I couldn't get it to work. Blasted game wants everything done its way in its language. Poppy-cock..

anyway, I did two changes, one in RRT_Trains_map-name.xml and one in RRT_Names_map-name.xml. :

<Train>
<szName>TAG_NAME_STIRLING</szName>
<Year>1945</Year>
<szManufacturerName>Gullane Limited</szManufacturerName>
</Train>

and

<Names>
<RRTTrains>
<TextKey>
<Tag>TAG_NAME_STIRLING</Tag>
<Text>Thomas The Train</Text>
<Gender>M</Gender>
</TextKey>
</RRTTrains>

<RRTCities>
<TextKey>

My error was in making sure I didn't make any mistake in the name, I copied the whole line, so I got <szName> instead of <Tag>. Bummer.

But it does work. :wink:
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

Bushdoctor
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Post by Bushdoctor » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Thanks a lot for the advice guys. Slowly but surely I'll get there.

Wow, just one simple mistake was causing quite a mystery overhere.
I only noticed it when posting my xml's which took out the tabs..

Anyways, that seemed to work. The train shows up in the roundhouse
with lthe adjusted name and date. Time to experiment with some different settings!

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Jancsika
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Post by Jancsika » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:06 am

If I recall correctly there was some discussion in the distant past about dual locomotives, where the second locomotive was backwards. I was looking for it and could not find it. Is it plausible? It would look interesting.
Jancsika

Bushdoctor
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Post by Bushdoctor » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:03 am

Yes, Lowell explained that "diesels will have a B-Unit that faces the other way...steam trains do not have a reversed engine...they both face forward".

I'm not there yet, but curious to check that out.

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Warll
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Post by Warll » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:39 am

Diesels can face both ways, either way does not make a difference since they are using electric engines anyway.
Image

snoopy55
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Post by snoopy55 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:09 am

Yes Warll, but the other part about that is that a 'B-Unit' is one without a cab, not to be confused with a 'Slug' or 'Calf' There is an F7 'A-Unit' which has a cab and the F7 'B-unit' which does not. And a 'B-unit' can also face either way since there really is no front or back to it. I know that most, if not all, of the F units had A and B units. There may have been other types, but I can't think of them off hand.
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I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

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