Global XML Instructions

Discuss maps, trains and other modding topics
gforce
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Post by gforce » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:37 pm

:shock:
Really choobacca,
you give me the idea that you don't care about the gamers, simple, advanced or normal...
You've got your idea, and despite all the problems that all the gamers do have with it, you keep on pushing 'your system'.
It's a scandal to react like this...
Do your system, as you like, but don't say it is perfect for all of us...
we are not all addict on xml-file coding or libraries
you see this with each post on this,
how many people got problems because of this??? alot, even more then those posting questions!!! how many people are not capable to play alot of user maps, all those maps they can't play is such a pitty for those maps and the people created those...
The question is not how the game is made,
the question is: how to play the game
I am polite, you just don't have respect for problems of others :cry:
Sorry guys, i ask you to take care of others, that's what it's all about, and this need no discussion...
Take the point-of-view of others and it will open up your mind,
i believe you've got difficulties with that...
:!: you don't need to answer before you (can) have positionned yourself once in others point-of-view, don't get stuck

:!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
HELP FOR EVERYONE WITH PROBLEM
DO YOU (STILL) HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A MAP?
DO THIS: COPY ALL THE USERMAPS INTO ANOTHER FOLDER (fe xusermaps)
HAVE JUST ONE USERMAP (the one you want to play) IN THE USERMAPS
AND BE SURE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY FILES IN THE CUSTOMASSETS DIR
THIS WILL ALWAYS WORK WITHOUT A PROBLEM

:!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
(it's that easy, all this without all the work you would otherwise have to do with the global-file strategie)

(except when you want to play the maps of choobacca then you have to care about fpk files and global files

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Dr Frag
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Post by Dr Frag » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:43 pm

If I understand gforce correctly he only has one Scenario installed at a time and if he wants to play another then he must unistall that one and then install a new one. To me that sounds like more work than installing the Scenario once with the Global XML system and being able to select it in-game any time I want. Now for him that probably works (might be necessary) because he is doing a lot of experimenting with the game but for the non-modder I don't see that as a viable option.

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Dr Frag
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Post by Dr Frag » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:57 pm

gforce, I think you are a little out of line. In fact if you really look at the 'big picture' you will see that the Global XML strategy is what Firaxis uses and if the Scenario is more complex than just a new map then this system is required if you want to be able to insall a Scenario ONCE and be able to select it in-game any time you want to play it.

And actually I think choobacca IS thinking about the gamer and he wants them to get the most out of the game by not having to 'file manage' EVERY time they want ot play a different Scenario.

Your method may work fine for you but I bet the average gamer would have problems managing the many files of extended Scenarios. Instead of bitching about someone elses method and telling them to write instructions for YOUR method I think YOU should write up an alternate method for Scenario management.

DF

snoopy55
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Post by snoopy55 » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:43 am

gforce - I could give you real life examples of the problem we are having here, but having tried that in another thread, I am aware you don't care for it.

You stated that people have problems with maps..... if they have not made this known, how are you aware of this fact?

You say people don't understand what is being done in this thread.....how do you know of this??? 1161 views have been made on this thread, 44 replies have been made, BY 10 PEOPLE. Now go over the thread and tell me how many ended up dumping this way and going on to some other way... only 1 as I recall, and he just gave up on the whole game cause it wouldn't work for him. No one else has said that this is not working. Hey, I gave up on mind reading long ago, doesn't work(heck, I have trouble reading my own mind at times). It seems that this is to difficult for you. OK, what is it you don't understand? Slappy had problems with it, I spent time working on this thing, searching things, going over his files, anything I could to help him make it work. And it works for him now. I'll do that for anyone else also. What I, and no one else, can do is help someone who comes up and says 'My game won't do this, tell me how to fix it.....' Won't do what????? You yourself have put up posts saying I'm trying to get the game to do XXXXX, and I've tried 6 ways and it won't work, can someone help me? What 6 things did you do, what did you put in the XML? And to try more than one thing at the same time and your system crashes, that's where you slow down. Change one thing at a time, make sure that works, make notes of exactly what you did to those XMLs and if you can't get it to work, tell us all about it. We'll help even those who condem us.

As to choobaccas maps and the FPKs, those FPKs are as needed as the map. People are asking for different things in these maps and the only way to do it is those FPK files or D53462s folders. And sooner or later you are going to have to start shuffling those around just like the maps. Someone hits 'Move' instead of 'Copy' and once they delete it when they are done, they've lost it and won't know until they want to play it again. They also have to keep records of what they have to move with what maps and where.

At any time someone can ask and the full Globals and all needed files can be uploaded for someone to download and place. What I did was to allow people to learn how to change it themselves. If a mapper chooses not to use Global, fine, I don't plan on jumping up and down on his head for it, I gave that up when people continued to not put ReadMes in their maps. I'll rewrite the map for myself and set it up for Global. And if someone asks for it, I'll upload it for them to use Global. If it is in Global, I'm sure someone will be willing to rewrite it into non-Global form. But I'll not condem anyone elses way of mapping! If someone didn't put a ReadMe in a file, someone else has always been there to assist them and the user. And people to assist others will be around a long time.

If someone doesn't want to play with XMLs because they don't know how or don't want to, but they would like to use Globals, all they have to do is ask and they'll be given what they need and won't have to open any files. This was done to teach people how to do it, just like your tutorial on editing things FPK files. Yes, I'd like to do that also, but if I start on something and get interupted for some reason, I have a great chance of loosing my train of thought and not finding it again. There is a reason for that that has haunted me for a decade now, and will for the rest of my life.

And the worse is the 'except' you put in your post.....you yourself are working on things that will have to be in the CustomAssets file. Holiday Scenario requires things to be in there, so does Scrooge. What do you plan on doing then? Don't pounce on something you will soon be doing.

And please leave this post to those who do want to use it. If I find something in this forum I have no use for, I skim thru it, shrug my shoulders, and go on to the next thing. I've past thru many posts that way.

When you first put a reply on my trying to show mappers how to do Globals, I had to walk away from my computer to compose myself. I won't answer that post, I think I've said it all here. I only hope you can come to understand it all.

I was going to avoid this, but since it was brought up by the good Doc, I did alot of playing around with UT2K4. To keep from having any problems I had 3 copies of it on my system. One for me to play with my settings, one for my younger brother to play online when he came down to work on my fathers house, with his settings and the third was nothing more than a 'Construction Zone' which I used to make maps. When I thought I had everything right, I moved the map to my playing game and there found what was working and not working. Try it, it just might work for you.

and he pulls his left foot out of his soapbox, picks it up, takes a deep breath, and walks away.......

Steps back......

And tell me, anyone, with all the dislike of this game and its problems, would you have liked it any at all if everytime you wanted to play a map you had to shuffle folders :?: :?: I can't remember a computer game with more than one version that EVER required that. Heck, it was bad enough back before you connected a cassette recorder to your computer, when you had to load in each game from switches of a keyboard of some kind.

drops his chin to his chest and shuffles away........
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

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atani
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Post by atani » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:29 am

Dr Frag wrote: WoW, that would be pretty imipressive if you could do that. The biggest issue I'd imagine will be parsing the Globals to see if the new info is already in them. If you do start this project you might want to make a new thread to discuss the developement as I'm sure there are people that would be interested in participating.
Ok, got everything working as I expect it to, I have started a new thread Automated Installer for Custom Maps

Mike

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universum
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Post by universum » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:21 am

I am probably a little bit late here but I have to agree with gforce on this one.

A little rant first: The way how Railroads! handle files is terrible. Instead of reading files by name in very specific order, it searches everywhere and picks the one with latest timestamp. This way any file with global file name placed in any scenario's folder can affect all other scenarios.

In my opinion much better approach would be to look for files in scenario folder first, then in 'My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Railroads!\CustomAssets' and finally in the game installation directory. This way no file in any scenario could possibly affect anything else.

The way how is it done is causing us problems which have no good solution. I don't like the idea of merging everything into a single file because of the fact that I usually download the scenario, play it and when I have extracted all the fun I could, delete it from my disk to free up the space (especially if it has many custom assets). This is general way how I download user created content for any game. I am no collector and I don't want to keep all the stuff I have ever downloaded. Each scenario in unzipped form takes at least 10 MB but with bigger size and more custom assets, it could be as much as 40 MB or more. My Railroads! folder in My Documents already takes almost half a gigabyte.

Even more importantly, this solution just cannot completely work: some changes must be done in global files (RRT_Tunnels, RRT_Goods, RRT_Difficulty) and there is no way to reconcile them. If you make price of tunnels different, there is no way you could put two differently priced tunnels into single file (actually there might be, you can rename them and include local RRT_Tunnels_??? which only picks the specific tunnel types). If you modify the RRT_Difficulty.xml, you cannot have two difficulty levels with the same name but different parameters. You can merge goods as long as they have different name but once two developers create new good with the same name but different parameters, you are finished.

I use gforce's approach, I am trying to avoid running executables of "unknown" origin on my machine and prefer to just unzip the scenario to user maps myself. This way I cannot possibly be infected by virus. Having to move the scenario folder back and forth is small price I am more than willing to pay. If someone created small application to move scenarios from Passive to Active and back, problem would be solved. The application could check if the scenario is compatible with other scenarios or if it has to be used exclusively and could automatically deactivate all the conflicting scenarios. I don't think that running small application for few a minute or two before spending long hours playing the scenario is big deal. I have actually seen something like that done for Freelancer.

I find this approach much simpler and reliable than using some setup program to get things right and have to care about keeping it up to date. Wondering if the scenario not working is because of the scenario creator or the setup program from someone else. The setup program WILL contain bugs and these will have to be fixed (I write software for a living so I know what I am talking about).

So for myself: no, thank you.

These are my $0.02.
Last edited by universum on Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

snoopy55
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Post by snoopy55 » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:06 am

A few points on this.
With almost every map you have both the original and the Installer, so your needs are taken care of.
We have people who can't load in some of these maps and materials without the Installers.
There are people who, like you, want to have fun with these maps. They want all the engines available at the same time. They don't care what the date is.
The total space needed to store all the Custom Assets and the Globals is only 357Mb on my system, and I have almost everything available, plus more that I have done.
When making maps, a person can take a revised NewMapBase XML and have everything available to him in the creation of his map. The original NewMapBase doesn't even include all of the original material.
The setup program did have bugs, and Atani did fix them. And the user doesn't have to worry about keeping it up to date.
If you leave the Custom Assets and the Globals there, all you have to do when you're done with a map is delete it.

This was done to simplfy things for everyone. If someone likes a map, but thinks one of the goods from another map would be neat, all he has to do is add 3 lines to 3 to 5 XML files in the map and play to his hearts content. Not everyone is a programer, some even have trouble making a few changes and upload stuff asking others to do it for them. Hey, there are things even I can't do, and I've been a programer for over 20 years.

I could give my 2 cents on what Gforce said and how he went about it, but I'll pocket my change since I think he's OK with it now.

If you cannot find the original files for a map, ask for them, I think they'll gladly be uploaded for you, and anyone else. But don't condem something that 99% of us are happy with.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

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Slappy Da Clown
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Post by Slappy Da Clown » Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:57 pm

OK

I guess I`ll add my 2 cents now. I got this game for Christmas. I love computer gaming, but, I just like to play them ( although Im gonna try some coding soon ). Heres what I think. When the average Joe gets a game he just wants to play, not everyone is interested in coding & building new maps. They just wanna play. Fortunately, there are guys like Snoopy, atani, choobaca and many more. When I started to play if you wanted a new map you had to manipulate a lot of files ( moving & changing ). It was pure hell on anyone not into coding & stuff. These guys came up with a way to install these maps that is damm near idiot proof ( although the map still has to be coded correctly ). Sure , there are some things that could be changed ( I would like to see it install the map without installing a program in add/remove programs ). But, as it now stands everyone should be able to download maps & play them. I have about 30 maps installed on my machine & except for the 2 or 3 noted in another post they all work without any ctds. If the game ctds with only the base maps ( the ones that come with it ) installed something is wrong with your computer or your setup or your vid card. The basic game does not crash on my system. If new maps crash there is a coding problem with the map. I have crashed every custom map until I figured out what was causing it & then these guys busted their humps to fix it. These guys are all working to make this game playable by ALL levels of gamer. I thank them & you should too. Like Snoopy says if you got a problem ask, you never know, even a drunken old clown might be able to help.


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choobacca
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Post by choobacca » Tue May 01, 2007 5:17 pm

There is no one right way to handle custom maps in this game. Here is a side-by-side comparison of two common methods for those readers who are deciding how to maintain custom maps.

Global XML File System
---------------------------------
PROS
*Idiot-proof installer for maps in a single executable.
*Supports having multiple maps installed that you can flip through in the game.
*Possible to change settings for all maps by editing a single global xml file.
*Map makers have mods right at their fingertips in the global xmls that they can reference in their maps with very little xml code.
*Custom maps can share resources from other map's FPK files.

CONS
*RRT_Tunnels.xml and RRT_Difficulty.xml and maybe others don't have map-specific versions and are always global.
*More rules to follow when adding mods to existing maps or creating new maps which can be confusing.
*It is easy for one map to interfere with others if not careful.


Maintaining Different CustomAssets Directories
----------------------------------------------------------------
PROS
*No interference between maps.
*Easier to maintain for most people.
*No installer needed. Just extract to your CustomAssets directory.

CONS
*Only one custom map installed and playable at a time.
*Copies of large FPKs on your computer as some maps share the same ones.
*Must edit xml for each map to apply a setting to all maps.
*Still have to add/modify global XML files when adding custom mods.
*Map-makers and even players must find and copy more XML for the mods they want in their maps.


Let me know if I missed anything and I can update this list.

Since each method has Pros and Cons, the best solution might be a combination of the two. Since most maps do work well together with the Global XML File System, I keep these maps together in one of my CustomAssets archives. Then maps like Arizona that has higher tunnel prices in the global RRT_Tunnels.xml that I don't want applied to all maps, I keep this map in its own CustomAssets archive that I recall every time I want to play it. Then the map I am currently working on I keep in its own CustomAssets archive.

Editorial Comment:
The ideas that have come out of this forum all stem from the desire to help each other and to make this game better than Firaxis ever cared to do. I attempted to offer a fair comparison of this topic which has always been one of split and harsh debate. While constructive criticism can be helpful, let's take care not to bash ideas that might work for others.

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Chalako
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Post by Chalako » Mon May 07, 2007 9:03 pm

This is maybe a stupid question, but where can i find that Holiday Scenario?Is that tha Santa scenario?

I uninstalled my game and started all over again (install, patch)because i made a mess of it.

snoopy55
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Post by snoopy55 » Mon May 07, 2007 9:14 pm

Yes, that is the Santa Scenario.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

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Chalako
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Post by Chalako » Tue May 08, 2007 12:42 pm

I installed the Santa scenario(Setup_Santa_1.0) but i can't load the map.
When i start the game i click on load game and browse to my games\CustomAssets\Scenario's\Santa and click on it i have no result.When i type Santa and click on OK i get a window that says " this is not a valid file , type in the right name.
When i select single player i can't find it either in the scenario's.

Another problem, when i look in my games i have two folders named Sid Meiers railroads.One with CustomAssets and usermaps, saved games etc...and one with only the folder CustomAssets witch is empty.I tryed to install the scenario in both of them and it dosn't work, i also installed in in usermaps with the same result.It's driving me nutts.The game is installed on my k: drive.

I have all those installers downloaded(AC 4400, GP7,EMD F3 A ,etc...) and installed them or is it not needed to have them?What am i doing wrong?

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Warll
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Post by Warll » Tue May 08, 2007 2:28 pm

Check to see that the installers did not create a SMR folder in your C: drive.
Image

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Dr Frag
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Post by Dr Frag » Tue May 08, 2007 7:27 pm

You do not choose Load Game, that's for loading a Save game. You choose Single Player and scroll to A Tycoon's Tale.

The game install is on your K: drive but the extra content shouold be installed to C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Railroads!. What you should probably do is go through the Global XML install instructions (from a fresh install) to get the basics loaded correctly.

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Chalako
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Post by Chalako » Wed May 09, 2007 3:53 pm

Warll wrote:Check to see that the installers did not create a SMR folder in your C: drive.
I have two SMR- folders on my c;drive\documents\my games.

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