how to limit the amount of money at the end? and other ideas

[gforce]

We all have problems with the fact that so many scenarios will generate too much money at the end of the game.
Maybe for multiplayer games it's not such a problem, but for single player games it's just no fun!!!
There are surely some people out there with some ideas (better ideas then just setting the track and train costs higher) (the problem with this is that in the beginning you don't have enough money and there will be still one moment you will get too much)
- i hope to get some good ideas here?!
anyone...

[gforce]

How do prices of goods change in time?
Ok, there are events, i know.
Ok, there are price ranges you can set for each good.
Yes, it's clear that passengers prices drop in time.
But most of my goods do increase in time, so it will give alot of money at the end of game. Why is that? (or better how is that)

[karsten]

there are some ideas in the Arizona scenario ...

and I will experiment more with events, yes they are a bit ... er ... random, that is their problem. But with a very big factor you can really increase or decrease prices drastically, paper can be more valuable that arms for many years ... and it really happens, you can check on the goods price graph.

[universum]

One way is to run long distance transport of goods, it could result in net loss rather easily (no distance or speed bonus unlike with passengers and mail). This way you will have to run another trains just to keep the trains you need to fullfil scenario goals operating. You can also limit number of sources, i.e. non-city industries like mine, sawmill, farm, etc, these need nothing but produce goods and as long as you can buy processing industry nearby, you are of the hook. If you have too many of those possibilities, it is boring (NorthEast UK map from Narra with far too many ways how to make money, at least in the first version).

In general, it is a problem of difficulty. If you make your scenario possible on Robber Baron, it will be too easy on other difficulties. This is a good thing though because what is easy for seasoned player, might be too hard for a beginner.

I think that focus in scenarios is progressing from economy to logistics. At first you have to make money but at the end, it is really about making sure you can "deliver". Even if you have enough money, just juggling all the goals might be challenge enough (Superbowl express is good example of that, you only have like 25 years).

At the end, it takes a lot of playtesting to get things right (add additional goals, remove "easy money" setups, tweak min and max prices for goods, increase number of carloads to transport).

[snoopy55]

One thing I see is the amount of money made with passengers. Almost all of the railroads in the US have gone Amtrak, and it's barely making it most of the time. In the game, fine a loop of several towns w/passengers, start up 1 or 2 trains, and figure out where to spend the money. Most of what you hear in the forum is get those passengers going. I think it was gforce who came up with the idea of getting passengers to the annexes in order to get Goods out. That is a very good thought. If we can get Firaxis to set it up for more than 1 Good in REQUIRED for any output, I think it would be great.

Another would be in buying Industries.... a Steel Mill cost much more than a Paper Mill. Vary the prices on the cost of Industries and the Auction prices. Buy a Textile Mill for $150,000 and in 6 or 8 carloads of Wool in you've paid for it, not to mention the Textiles it puts out. (Yes, I know you don't really 'Pay For It' by what you bring in, but the idea is there. You do make it in 6 or 8 by what you deliver 'From' it.) Also, If you don't ship, you stop producing, Those warehouses get filled and production stops, or should.

All this and other thing will come about in 2 possible ways, 1, Firaxis hears and programs, or 2, in a year or two they go open source or a 'like version' goes open source.

Hey, we can hope...

[karsten]

Yes, in Arizona Gold, Hotels and Banks cost $ 1 million each, and that certainly makes a difference. And the Hotel only produces passengers if some have arrived earlier.

[choobacca]

I have been tackling this very issue in my current map in development. I want to make it easy and fun to get started. I hate it when I always have to sell all my stock and run out of money, and then sit and watch one train deliver goods for the first 10 minutes of the game.
But the late game has you swimming in money, but as universum points out, this is when you are concentrating on completing objectives anyway.

My ideas to keep the money balanced:
All upgrades could be made more expensive. I like keeping the cost of Depots and Annexes reasonable, but Stations and Terminals should be much more expensive since they are upgrades for the later game. I mean adding another track for a Terminal is a HUGE upgrade that should be more expensive.

Prices of industries could be more expensive to buy in cities.

Increasing the prices of Bridges and Tunnels is already being done, even if it is on a global map level (because Tunnels XML file doesn't work right).

The later trains could be made more expensive.

Adjust train maintenance costs up or goods delivery prices down to keep trains from becoming overly profitable. Or forcing longer runs would do the same thing.

I like longer runs because cities grow slower, profits grow slower, there is more room for a track layout, and it is more realistic as the train doesn't span two cities.

[gforce]

my trains are running in the beginning alot of stations(depots), yes almost 10, because trains are expensive and production of goods are very low...
maybe i'll try this: goods like grain, wood, will decrease in price while second goods like manufactered goods not but they need 2 main-goods for 1,
is it correct that i can't control the growth on annexes, just like for cities?
if i could that would be a very easy solution!
i know, the problem is that i use nitrates and cornmeal as inputs for annexes, they lead to fast growth of annexes but they are so fun becuase they invoke those many stops for my trains for the moment...
ps: it's nice to know that we will have no problems with the fact if i change the cost of trains etc...

[gforce]

Another idea,
most of the time trains are transporting 6-8 fully loaded,
this has an effect on their speed, but we don't care because the routes are simple and not costly,
i've got advanced routes,
so maybe the production must be set very low (i'm talking about 0.2 0.1, yes that low).
but then again even with 10 stops it may be difficult to have it all managed well,
i will try this (currently at 0.2 set it to 0.1 and increase the goods value a little bit higher maybe double it, the effect: train transporting 4 fully loaded cars, so speed is still good, the graph of power will make sence)
you can see this as if your cars can transport double-amount-of-goods,
as if you've got 16 cars instead of 8
i wish redknight was there, he was pretty good at estimating those effects...
another idea,
having expensive trains is good, but increasing the track-laying at the same time isn't, this holds you back on laying advanced routing...
oh god, there's no stopping me on testing, i should release a v.0.9 of my map, but then again...

[gforce]

asking to get more villages turned into towns,
is a good thing, this will enforce people to expand and in this way there will be not so many villages ignored at the end, and it's easy to set as a goal!

[gforce]

about investor and other difficulty settings,
i think i'll do it like this:
having alot of eras, one medal will be rewarded to players wich are beginners fe ship 10 food to x, while 1 year later there's another medal for players (advanced) if fe they ship 20 food
i think this will be more fun, no?
you could say, i've got 8 medals out of 10 and someone else 5 out of 10
It's pretty anoying when you don't get any medals if you don't reach a goal, specially for the first one, most of the time i stop the scenario already there and restart, ok, it's me who stops the game but it's a natural reaction...

ps: is there a limit on eras (medals) you can specify, i've read somewhere there would be a limit on era-interval, spneone more info?