Side to Side

[snoopy55]

It is really very simple....there was complaining about my putting the SAMs in my own thread, which I had no choice but to do since I could not edit other peoples posts. To delete the original maps would have both caused more trouble, plus there are still some people who may wish to run them in the old style, or even download them and do versions themselves.

I discussed this with Falcanor and was told to forward what I had in mind to Tazz.

Would you have liked it if, while I was Moderator, I deleted the maps from your first post and stuck the SAMs there? If you have been following the discussions going on on the forum, and I'm sure you have, you'd see that no matter what and how it is done, someone is not going to like it. On the 'SAM style maps for downloading....', a person has to go find the maps thread to make comments on it and see what it's all about. If a seperate thread was started for each SAM, we would have over 200 threads by the time they were all done, and you'd still have to go find the original thread to see what it was all about. And to many copies of the same map spread all over the forum was a big complaint.

I'm sorry if I seem a bit heavy on this, but I've been thru heavy discussions about it, as you pointed out, since last last November when we started these SAMs. There is a Side to Side 2 SAM, a Side to Side SAM, a setup Side to Side (the Installer) and the original Side to Side. The first is simply a V2 with VCs. What is confusing about it. The different types are self-explanitory.

I also do not think people want Tazz or anyone else messing up thier first post with explanations of what the zips are all about.

[Bwana]

I'm sorry if I seem a bit heavy on this, but I've been thru heavy discussions about it, as you pointed out, since last last November when we started these SAMs. There is a Side to Side 2 SAM, a Side to Side SAM, a setup Side to Side (the Installer) and the original Side to Side. The first is simply a V2 with VCs. What is confusing about it. The different types are self-explanitory.

I also do not think people want Tazz or anyone else messing up thier first post with explanations of what the zips are all about.

I had to crawl through 15 threads to find out that SAM stands for 'Stand Alone Map'. I've been here on this site since I bought the game back in 2007. Now I reinstalled the game to enjoy it over again, so I thought "hey, let's download some new maps from the Hooked Forums". Now, when the casual player comes here and checks a maps thread, he gets knocked down with the original zip, an installer, and one or 2 zips with 'SAM' in the filename. I can assure you that a situation like that is very frustrating if you haven't been around for awhile.

Now ontopic again: I thought I had a save just before it crashes when unloading Automobiles. I was wrong so I'll have to start from scratch. I'll see if it happens again.

[Bwana]

Aight, my little brother started over with this map and yes, it crashed again when it unloads Automobiles in Grace. I hope a savegame can help?

[cpt_vimes]

I can confirm this. In the SAM version, the game crashes when unloading the first automobiles in Grace. Its a real shame, as I was really enjoying the challenge of this map.

[snoopy55]

Thank you both. I'll try to run the save you posted Bwana, and I'll test it out myself.

Was that the original or the 2nd SAM?

[mikeyc]

Snoopy,
I have no issue with your decision to create a separate thread for the SAMs. You had no real choice and I think you made the right decision.

Your third paragraph. I am not suggesting for one minute that we have a separate thread for each SAM. That would be silly. Logically the SAM needs to go into the original thread with original map so all the info regarding that map is on that thread. Simple!

All I am saying is that Tazz as moderator should put some note at the top of each thread when the SAM is put there explaining what's going on. ( Refer to my post on 02/09 in the discussion about confusion, there is a suggested paragraph to be used).

Your paragraph about S to S says it all. Clear as mud.

I really don't think too many mappers would complain about Tazz adding an explanation. It's in their interest to allow people easy access to their map, be it the original or the SAM.

The post by Bwana is exactly what I am talking about.

Snoopy none of this debate or my comments is a personal attack or a criticism of you, it is merely an attempt to avoid confusion now and in the future.

[snoopy55]

Mikeyc - I understand what you are saying, but it is really not up to me. In that thread you speak of it was said that the post Tazz added to the end of the thread was not right and that it should have gone at the beginning of the thread. The problem with that is simople, the thread would have stayed where it was, and unless you skimmed thru each map thread, you would have had no idea that the SAM had been added.

I know you were not suggesting those things in the third paragraph, I only stated what was open for use at the time and the thoughts that were given against them.

I think rather than putting the same post on each thread, it might be better to edit the sticky 'How to install SAMs......', explaining what they are, what the different downloads are for, and then the existing part of how to use them. I don't know if I want to approach CICs as I don't know enough about them, and it would not be my place to do so. This might be the perfect time to do it as my systems C: drive bit the dust and all the editing programs have to be set up again to the stage I had them before.

And, it was not, for the most part, any of the mappers whose maps I am working on that had the problem with it all.

Let me try this.....I'll re-write the first post of the 'How to install SAMs......' sticky, and see if Tazz will add a note to the Installer and SAM downloads about reading the sticky. If you have any ideas you might want to PM him as to what might be best to say. I don't know if you'll get an answer, I haven't yet, but some of my thoughts were used.

Snoopy none of this debate or my comments is a personal attack or a criticism of you, it is merely an attempt to avoid confusion now and in the future.

I understand, and I'm sorry if I sounded like I thought it was. The last week or so has been hard and I was tired. I kind of have to heavily think over what I want to say and be very careful what I write as my cheeks are a bit sore from being slapped so much in the last few months. I think my postings will be less, and except for my materials and known wrong answers (and maybe not even those), I'm going to try to keep to the SAM postings and the BB postings. I think we are still in need of some housecleaning, but I think I failed in that subject, so I'll stick to cleaning up my own threads and posts.

As to another Sticky....well, I cannot make them, and I think I'll stick to the ones I have just to keep the waters calm.

[snoopy55]

As to the Side to Side SAM......

There is something about Grace that seems to be keeping Automobiles from going to it. So far I have:

Moved it inland...
Renamed it 'Centralia'....
Changed Automobiles to Machinery.....
Gotten a headache......

No crashes (except when I forgot to make ALL the needed changes.... ) but, and no one mentioned this in their posts, you seem to be able to unload Automobiles in every other Metropolis. The set-up style works fine tho.

I'm going to try messing around with a few other things, maybe even go into the editor and set up six new cities (without any Grace) and see what happens.

I'm courious if the Side to Side DSC map will have the same problem..........

[snoopy55]

Side to Side is back up and in working order. You will see a Passenger icon, but it is a 'No Passenger' icon. Ignore it. It was found that the game requires either Passengers or Mail for a SAM. Thanks to vzbob for discovering that.

Enjoy.

[cpt_vimes]

Thanks Snoopy! I'll give it a go.

[cpt_vimes]

Finally got round to revisiting the fixed version of Side to Side (thanks to Snoopy). The fix certainly sorted out the automobiles problem, though it seems there's another problem waiting further down the line.

Whenever you try to create a train at Linton to carry Manufactured Goods to Wilding, the game crashes the instant the train tries to load its first car. I tried various strategies to pinpoint what was causing the crash, and it always comes down to that precise point.

Didnt spoil the game for me at all really, as I just bypassed that goal, knowing that it would have been met with the other 2, which are easily completed in the late game. I didnt know if it it might be useful to other players though.

Cheers,

Vimes

[snoopy55]

Thanks my man!

Manufactured Goods from Linton heh? Pete mention something about talk of a strike there, I'll have to get the arbitration team on it.........

[snoopy55]

Still trying to figure that out guys.

STEP Inc has a nifty version of this map coming out....a bit bigger, and a bit more difficult. New Cars and Engines all around.

[snoopy55]

Recieved an E-mail with a request to see what was causing the crash, so I checked it over, found and repaired it on both SAMs.

I will be doing any needed work on the maps i have posted, repair them and repost them, out of respect of members and those who just download, but that is about all.