Mud Skippers

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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:16 pm

Oh...just remembered, when you "update" any of these self-contained maps. When in game at the map pick screen, you need to scroll past the map a couple, and then scroll back. This forces the game to totally reload everything for that scenario file assets and all.

The reason is the game remembers some of the old map file it had previously loaded. If a change occurs in the scenario, the game won't see the old named file etc and could crash out the map.

If a self-contained map crashes after being updated, you can go right back in and it will fully load because of the crash and never crash after that. It is easier to remember to scroll past and then back and then load the map. :)

But if they think something is missing I will run through the scenario again.
Thanks again for letting me know.

snoopy55
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by snoopy55 » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:56 pm

Lowell, I've avoided this for some time, but since you are questioning me about it, I have to question your logic.

As I understand you, if I had loaded this game two months ago and found it had a problem, then downloaded the newest version and started it without scrolling past the map and going back, it would remember the previous loading....two months ago? The only memory this game has is in RAM and Virtual memory, both of which get changed each time you use a different program. It does not store anything on HD. And self contained maps are no different from the regular maps except that they do not use some of the original XML files, so if self contained maps have this problem, so would the others.

Now, there is one minor problem that may be this game or may be Windows/Vista settings. When I am editing files and testing them, this game does not completely let go of the memory it has used. BUT, it does not reuse it either. It simply closes that section of memory like a box and goes on to the next section. For this reason I have Solitare on screen. Every two or three 'tests' of a map edit, I go over and start up the Solitare game. Maybe I play it thru, maybe I don't. What this does is clears everything out of RAM and VM that Windows/Vista is not using, emptying the boxes. I then go back to testing the map. I have had a map crash when i know it should not have, played the Solitare, and then restarted the map with no changes, only to have it work fine. A program that shows available RAM and VM may prove this out, but I don't have one or the time to spend testing it.

If this game were 'remembering' maps played, 4 Gb of RAM and 4 GB of VM would be gone very fast, and no other programs would be able to run. And, if it stored this data on HD, you'd be quickly running out of HD space.

Rethink your point.

Also, the map is not crashing. You have a file missing, and a lot of files that are not used. This is the reason I set up maps using the FPKs from the BBs I make and then open them and combine them when the map is set to be tested/posted. No extra files to be removed and no missing files.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:25 am

No it's like this.

Make a change in a scenario goal or something important on a self contained map. Now, if the last map you went to was say mud skippers and we made a big change on the mud skipper files. Say you haven't played any other maps but that one before the change. Other games and such don't count only the map that was last played in RailRoads.
Now you go into the map and click on the map load screen and crash.
If you "scroll" past the map then scroll right back, then reload the map, it fully loads the files.

Try it yourself, it may have been happening to you and others and you didn't even notice.

Happens every time for me. Now you have to change something big, scenario goals etc...changing something inside a nif or kfm won't trigger this.

Try it a couple times and maybe you will see what I am talking about. It may explain some crashes people might have experienced. This happens on my files and all of the beta testers I have asked about this.

It's no biggie, because after you crash out an updated map like that, the next time you go right back and reload it, the game will fully load the map file and no crash on the reload ever after that. I haven't dug very deep into this; I just know it happens when I change major items in the files and then go right back in-game to test something. It's like the last load of a scenario the game saves some of the major items listed in the files and assets "somewhere". and the map load screen in-game has something to do with what was last loaded from that scenario file.
Sorry if I haden't explained this fully/correctly in the past.

edit//I should also say that the clean install compatible map files I use have built-in global files, maybe it only affects mine? At any rate it happens, I have learned to work around it easy enough. :? I'll fire-up mud skippers and give it a run through later this evening and see what's up...thanks again.

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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:25 am

So far so good. All goods, industries and era 1 train cars all test out okay. I have a bit farther to go yet though. :) I downloaded and am playing the files from my link supplied for the mod.

Next I will be pulling up the auto industry, mud furniture and ports.
Last edited by Lowell on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

snoopy55
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by snoopy55 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:12 am

What I'm talking about is not editing NIFs and KFMs. It's adding sections to XMLs like Goods, Industries, TrainCars and Trains. And I tested out your theory, I checked the size of 'My Games' and the main 'Sid Meier's Railroads!' folder in 'Program Files'....no size gain or loss at any time, and i can monitor them while I'm playing because I have 4 monitors running at all times. This game has no ability to remember previously played maps. Windows will refuse to let go of data in RAM and VM tho, and that has to be what you and your beta testers are experiancing. SAMs and CICs are nothing more than a different way to store the data needed by the game. The game does not know the difference and would not suddwenly start saving data from a map just because it is set up differently. CIC are nothing more than a smaller version of GLOBALS. The difference is where the XMLs are stored and what is in them. SAMs are nothing more than a regular map with a full listing of the required Goods and full listings of any Mods needed. The data storage you think is happening would have to have been written into the EXE, and would have caused MUCH trouble. All that is missing is either a set of instructions in the game telling Windows to ignore any data stored in RAM and/or VM, or there is a setting in Windows to do it that is not set. I have never done this 'scroll past a map' and have never had this problem UNLESS I restart the map I'm working on to many times without clearing it with the use of another program that is not running.

At this end....Subject Dropped.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....

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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:10 pm

There is an image file missing for the steel port annex. I will fix that right away. That DDS file can just be added to your Assets folder inside the map files. I will find it and zip it up, adding it here as an attachment for those who already have downloaded the map. It will change nothing to your game saved in progress, it will just pop-up in game as fixed. I will also add it to the download files of course as well. By this afternoon sometime, I will post when it has been done. One other item needs corrected, the double stack container car needs it's decal changed and some wording on their sides. I may take this opportunity to "shorten" the era 2 auto car, as it is a tad too long and the cars bleed into each other.
About three quarters through playing this scenario so far. Everything works fine so far. I have to test a couple levels in The Particles Within mod for Darwinia and then I will jump right back on this. :wink:
Last edited by Lowell on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:31 am

Okay, I have made the necessary changes needed. Simply unzip the folder and copy/paste the new files inside the attached file below into the Assets folder inside the Mud Skippers map folder. It will ask you if you want to copy over a couple of the old files, just say yes and they will be updated. This won't disturb any saved games you may have had or in progress.
One thing I still want to update is the steel cargo ship and port. I was thinking of removing the cargo containers and placing stacks of steel around the dock and on the deck of the cargo ship. Simple to do, but I have to edit all the nodes for the containers and make a second renamed model of the ship...as the same ship is used for both ports. Should be able to finish that this weekend, then it will be another drag and update thing like this one.

Attached files below for update as of 1-3-2009
Last edited by Lowell on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:32 pm

I ran the scenario through to the end, checking out all trains, cars etc. Everything ran great. There are a couple other items I need to correct. The new steel cargo ship and dock are near complete; also I edited the steel annex some more for better looks. I am going to add some animation Events to the nif file for the steel stacks.

I should be done with everything this weekend. I will post the last update here when complete.

Thanks again everyone for bringing this to my attention. :)
Last edited by Lowell on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:35 am

There are a couple extra game model files that were not used inside the Assets folder. No biggie, but those will be removed from the next update, that should reduce the file size a tad.

Map makers don't forget, somewhere I have posted a thread with the games default maps and made them larger. I believe it was a couple sizes each, like size 15 and 18 from size 10. This map is also in there as a blank game map to build on, however the extra landscaping and adjustments won't be on it, as it is still as the game had edited them...when it comes to those sets of maps.
Last edited by Lowell on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:04 pm

I have completed the steel cargo ship. The ship has a couple stacks of steel that are animated.
I need to go through all the assets folder and remove anything not needed, most of it is done. I am debating on making new routing images for the trains. Those are the pictures you see in the build a new train menu on the upper right hand corner. It would show an image of a dual engine etc. I may leave it default...not sure. It takes several screenshots and then they need edited in photoshop to fit. Otherwise it's done. Should be done tinkering sometime today. I will then release an update.
Last edited by Lowell on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vzbob
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by vzbob » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:20 am

Hmm try Turning the dock side on.
Like Mine :lol:
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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:58 pm

Right, it looks silly, this model was the first version of the cargo ship that Rodea made, around the same time I found the oil tanker model. It is supposed to unload from the back drop down door. I think this ship is for cars, trucks and wooden crates. I was working on turning it all around last night and changing the type dock. I removed the armor factory from my version, I only use the animation files from it to move the containers, or steel.

I am thinking of using a totally different model for cargo though. A standard container cargo ship will be used with a container shipping crane and dock all as one model.

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Burlington_Northern_3140
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Burlington_Northern_3140 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:10 pm

Lowell wrote:I am thinking of using a totally different model for cargo though. A standard container cargo ship will be used with a container shipping crane and dock all as one model.
Great Idea! That will be more fun to watch too.
Thomas
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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:24 pm

Mud Skippers is being reposted. Right now I could use a couple more testers just in case it needs any other adjustments.

Just send me a PM or E-mail for the test link.
Thanks.
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mud_skippers_60.jpg
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mud_skippers_54.jpg
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Lowell
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Re: Mud Skippers

Post by Lowell » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:42 am

Well it seems others have taken my mod files, made changes to the scenario then posted them on that other site. The name was not changed.

As all four of my mods ran fine, no issues. The four were having items expanded when right in the middle someone stole everything then made changes to their liking then posted the files with the same name. I guess they have been up for a spell as I just found out last night for the first time. I make self-contained maps, sams are not needed for my maps.

I will complete the mods and post them on my site and Mod DB, but not here. I am done with Hooked Gamers.

What they did is like me taking the Basin and Range Demo map and making a mod for it and posting it before they came out with the full version...they have stolen my projects.

So... the new versions will never be posted here...I am through.

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