Side to Side

atani · Post by **atani** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:20 am

snoopy55 wrote:dwax - found the problem, your pic helped. You have to install SuperBowlExpress. That puts in the Cowhides and Tannery, which is what that is.

I based the installer on the information you provided in your original zip... Of course, my SMRInfo tool should have caught the dependency and handled it accordingly.

Mike

snoopy55 · Post by **snoopy55** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:29 am

I had figured that I only needed to note the items I had created.

Sorry bout all the trouble

, I do hope someone likes it. I saw a screen shot from dwax on another post.

I had fun with it today with no AIs. Laying rails across the isthmus was rough..

G3mInI · Post by **G3mInI** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:01 am

I am going to make a suggestion here. I came to this after reading through this thread.

I suggest we split custom maps, and custom mods. For example, in order to run this map, you need not only Superbowl Express, but also Basin & Range Demo map. To me this is crazy. Making a custom which relies on another custom map, which relies on another custom map. When will it end?

Say a year from now. A person walks into Best Buy and purchases Railroads for $9.99. Plays the game and loves it. Begins searching online for custom maps to further extend his/her gameplay. Downlaods a map, installs it, starts up the game... BSOD. This person is not very computer savvy and now has no idea what just happened. Repeats the above steps, and then finally decides to come back here to see if there is any information on this BSOD. Sure enough the person finds that the map he/she downloaded requires him/her to download and install 15 other custom maps to be able to play the one they like and picked out.

Does that not sound insane?? It does to me. Did that example sound outragious? Not to me. Here we are only half a year down the road and we are up to depending on 2 custom maps to install 1 custom map.

Back to my suggestion. Maps and mods need to be split. A mapmaker makes a map and decides.. hmmm yes I would like to have the Santa Fe Diesel mod in my custom map. Or... hmm yes I would like to have a tannery in my custom map. Now when the mapmaker distributes his map, he includes in it the neccessity to install Mod A, or Mod B, etc. etc.

The wiki or some place needs to get set up that separates maps and mods, and descriptions for custom maps must include what mods are needed and where to get them.

Sounds like a lot to ask, but if you think about it, this is not that hard to do. All these mods can be seperated from the map rather easily. Package up the mod, give it a description, set it for download. The same goes for the map.

I think this community should really consider this before it gets so far out of hand that it would be a nightmare to either 1) Seperate maps and mods, or 2) Having to install 15 other custom maps so I can play 1 custom map.

Probably should not have hijacked this thread with this, but it was all I could think of as read each and every post.

G3mInI

dwax · Post by **dwax** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:47 pm

snoopy55 wrote:
dwax - found the problem, your pic helped. You have to install SuperBowlExpress. That puts in the Cowhides and Tannery, which is what that is.

I have the SuperBowlExpress installed snoopy, I have had that since it first came out.

atani · Post by **atani** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:53 pm

G3mInI wrote: I suggest we split custom maps, and custom mods. For example, in order to run this map, you need not only Superbowl Express, but also Basin & Range Demo map. To me this is crazy. Making a custom which relies on another custom map, which relies on another custom map. When will it end?

I am going to address this very soon. I have in the works a new version of the installer macros and as part of that I will add a new set of macros which will help validate the map as "usable" before it installs it. More details on this in the Mods-Misc threads..

Also, I will be repackaging this map and others to include their full dependencies (FPKs and industries, etc) so they are truly capable of being installed by themselves.

Mike

dwax · Post by **dwax** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:01 pm

dwax wrote:snoopy55 wrote:
dwax - found the problem, your pic helped. You have to install SuperBowlExpress. That puts in the Cowhides and Tannery, which is what that is.

I have the SuperBowlExpress installed snoopy, I have had that since it first came out.

My mistake!!:) I went and installed the new version of SuperBowlExpress and now the red blob is gone!! Thanks snoopy55.

snoopy55 · Post by **snoopy55** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:26 pm

G3mInI - I can see your concern, but another problem also arises in the same way. Say CNW Lover joins up in Dec of 2007. Gets all reved up to make a map. Got those GLOBALS installed because he downloaded all the maps available. 'I love that idea of a Tannery to make Footballs, I think I'll use it.' Does he research all (now) 125 maps to see where it started from? As atani pointed out, and I assumed, his installer was supposed to check for and install all info needed that wasn't installed. He has done one h**l of alot for this game, for the mappers and the players alike. (I'm not jumping on your head, just talking) Heck, I'm the one who originally shouted 'Let others know what they have to have loaded in order to use your map'. In a way it frustrates me, and in a way I love it, everytime I work to work out and explain a better way to do somwething, someone goes over my head and simplfies it totally! (had that in a train club once.. an area went 5 years un-detailed. I started doing it, not so good at it, and someone else came along and did a perfect job of it!)

I'll commend atani again and again, he's upgrading this game in ways Firaxis never thought of, he's doing it for us, and he ain't getting a cent for it. Makes me want to ask everybody to donate to his favorite charity (not a bad idea

)

And as you can see from his last post, he has listened to your input and is (or was before) working on it. Patience my young man, as they say, "Good things come to those who wait".

stormfather · Post by **stormfather** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:45 pm

I got it working now that I've re-installed the superbowl express, this is a fun map and great for designing complex routing schemes. Also, I've been looking through the custom files you've attached for the jelly and I'm going to try my hand at making my own, now. Thanks for the good map and the chance to learn something new!

snoopy55 · Post by **snoopy55** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:15 pm

Your're welcome

I learned alot also, like don't download shareware... I got a neat Icon maker program, and you can do really neat things with it, but if you want to save what you just did, send them $49

What I used is this: http://icofx.xhost.ro/ I didn't go into high detail, but you can.

great for designing complex routing schemes

Did you look at the save I did? 3 tracks thru the isthmus, and 4 at each end. Full crossover so little or no waiting trains. Just gotta either get those Annexes to grow or start them out larger. An upper-left start is much easier than a lower-right start. I'm curious how many other maps would be more of a challenge wothout the Passengers and Mail......

stormfather · Post by **stormfather** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:38 pm

I haven't seen that save, but I'll check it out when I get home tonight.

snoopy55 wrote:I'm curious how many other maps would be more of a challenge wothout the Passengers and Mail......

Me too, and the gears of my imagination are starting to turn...

G3mInI · Post by **G3mInI** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:19 pm

Well that all sounds great (installer checking necessary files and installing as needed). But I think you and snoopy missed my point totally.

Snoopy.. let's say that CNW Lover does go to make that map you discussed. No, he does not search any maps at all! In the scenario suggestion I was trying to portray he doesn't have to. That is my whole point. All CNW Lover has to do now is make sure he has Tannery Mod, or Football mod installed. Nothing to do with a map whatsoever. Because now the mod has been separated (extracted) from Superbowl Express map. Credit is given where credit is due and the Football mod is now available as a complete separate download from SuperBowl Express. However the SuperBowl Express map clearly states that Football mod is needed and Atani or someone has created an installer for Football mod. CNW Lover now goes to the mod section, downloads and installs Football mod, makes his map, releases it to the community, and in the installation instructions, he states Football mod is required to run this map.

Now with Atani here doing all of this for us in an installer is great, I just get worried if someone like Atani moves on to another game or loses interest in making these custom installers. (By the way Atani, are you using a Basic msi or an InstallScript package for your installers? I also have VS2005 and Installshield 12 and have made proggies and installers but quit due to boredom).

I have been a modder for Medal of Honor Allied Assault now for 5 years. Trust me, people come and go, and now most of the good modders are long gone, but few such as myself still love the game and produce maps, and mods for it.

I end my rant with, snoopy, very cool map. I like the concept of side to side. I am with Universal in the view that I don't really care for short distance trips. I like to watch my trains travel, and I like to build my track as realistic as possible. Keep up the hard work, very much appreciate it.
Atani same goes for you. Your work is very much appreciated. I know the trials and tribulations of making an installer. I have made probably 10 of them for various apps I wrote and each one gave me an issue here or there.

P.S. A simple app can be written to display which maps you have installed, and which mods you have installed. I myself have written an app (For Medal of Honor Allied Assault) that will show what mods you have, disable or enable them with a click of a button and show what maps you have, again allowing for disabling or enabling with the ease of clicking a button. This sort of app could prove quite useful for Railroads!

Peace to all,
G3mInI

atani · Post by **atani** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:36 pm

G3mInI wrote: Now with Atani here doing all of this for us in an installer is great, I just get worried if someone like Atani moves on to another game or loses interest in making these custom installers. (By the way Atani, are you using a Basic msi or an InstallScript package for your installers? I also have VS2005 and Installshield 12 and have made proggies and installers but quit due to boredom).

I am using NSIS to do all installers. I have used InstallShield in the past for other projects but NSIS is free

Mike

dwax · Post by **dwax** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:51 pm

I tried to load your save and it crashed on me snoopy55. don't know why,I can run the game Ok

snoopy55 · Post by **snoopy55** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:25 pm

G3mInI - I see your point also, but it has already been done. CNW-Lover doesn't have to dig into SuperBowlExpress for the Mod, he doesn't even need to see the Mod, all he has to know is for the Footballs to work, he needs to have in his RRT_Goods:

<Good>
<szName>Cowhides</szName>
</Good>
<Good>
<szName>Footballs</szName>
</Good>

In his RRT_Industries:

<RRTIndustry>
<szName>Football Manufacturer</szName>
</RRTIndustry>
<RRTIndustry>
<szName>Tannery</szName>
</RRTIndustry>

And in RRT_TrainCars:

<TrainCar>
<szName>Cowhide Car</szName>
</TrainCar>
<TrainCar>
<szName>Football Car</szName>
</TrainCar>

I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought in the earlier post. He doesn't have to look through any maps except one that used what he liked, which he'd have to do for the Mods. He has to Identify what he wants with the code he needs to use. to bypass that, I put up a TXT file to do just that, it lists the good, what Industry or Annex you need, what car you need and what Good you need to produce it. Thiese files and TXT can be added to and updated at any time.

dwax - I downloaded the installer and the save, and all I got was a crash. I don't think I have the original, so it's a lost cause

..... Next time I save the save AND a copy of the map at that time

dwax · Post by **dwax** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:03 am

Ran this for about 2 hours, never had any problems. Then I tried to load Jelly from Bass to Overton, as soon as it tried to put the train car on it crashed. I tried it again and the same thing happened. Is there a train car missing? or a code missing?