Liverpool and Manchester V3
universum: Pause the game and press Ctrl-F. This will get you into Free Flight mode. Left mouse will change the camera angle and cursor keys can move you around. The Shift or Ctrl keys will speed up moving.
Last edited by Dr Frag on Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sheffielded
This map has a really great feel and an excellent narrative/set of goals...
I see you say that the AI player will start in Sheffield. I've played (started) four times - 3 with no competitors and 1 time with one.
All four times I've started in Sheffield...is this coincidence?
Sheffield is sooooo very far from Manchester and Liverpool I don't know how you could make a succesful run at completing the goals on time.
Maybe I need to adjust my strategy (such as it is)...
willie g
I see you say that the AI player will start in Sheffield. I've played (started) four times - 3 with no competitors and 1 time with one.
All four times I've started in Sheffield...is this coincidence?
Sheffield is sooooo very far from Manchester and Liverpool I don't know how you could make a succesful run at completing the goals on time.
Maybe I need to adjust my strategy (such as it is)...
willie g
Dr Frag, thanks for the info.
It is gorgeous to see the map like that, too bad it crashes rather often. I have GeForce 7800 GS and I can run all my games in 1600x1200 without crashes except for Railroads which CTDs on me every now and then, mostly in custom maps and later in the game.
I tried Free Flight mode with Manchester Liverpool and it crashed sooner or later after I adjusted camera to look in horizontal direction. And it does not crashed once during the gameplay in well over 10 hours, thanks again karsten. Tried with Southwest game scenario and it did not crash. It probably depends on the size because it worked just fine in the Scrooge scenario.
It is a pitty that they did not try to do some tricks like reducing details with distance up to hiding entire object or making farther objects dissapear in the mist (like in Far Cry). And of course being able to attach camera to the train...
It is gorgeous to see the map like that, too bad it crashes rather often. I have GeForce 7800 GS and I can run all my games in 1600x1200 without crashes except for Railroads which CTDs on me every now and then, mostly in custom maps and later in the game.
I tried Free Flight mode with Manchester Liverpool and it crashed sooner or later after I adjusted camera to look in horizontal direction. And it does not crashed once during the gameplay in well over 10 hours, thanks again karsten. Tried with Southwest game scenario and it did not crash. It probably depends on the size because it worked just fine in the Scrooge scenario.
It is a pitty that they did not try to do some tricks like reducing details with distance up to hiding entire object or making farther objects dissapear in the mist (like in Far Cry). And of course being able to attach camera to the train...
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The_Commodore
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:57 pm
Another try, this time with Mogul difficulty, Hard routing difficulty, starting in Manchester. I have managed to complete all goals but getting all the passengers from Manchester to Liverpool was really close call (one month before the deadline). I am not sure if it is possible to make it on harder difficulty because it takes too long to setup profitable route (will try and report).
The trick I came up with was to start hauling coal to Manchester (ended up with pair of two car trains sharing single brick bridge and having double track to get the coal hauled as soon as it could be produced). Next was to set up train from Manchester to Warrington, set up passenger service and save enough money to purchase Automobile factory in Warrington and immediatelly switch to hauling iron there and once the Manchester grows enough to accept them, car in opposite dirrection. Hauling iron is rather profitable and hauling cars back even more so (50.000 per car load), distance is short and profit very high. I have setup two trains on this track with three cars each. Unfortunatelly coal mine output was rather low and would not increase.
Next was to connect Manchester to the sheep farm east of it and hooking up Crewe to encourage its growth and use it as destination for clothes because Liverpool first needs grow enough to accept them. After that I have connected Liverpool and started hauling passengers there.
Next was to get track to the sawmill to supply Leeds with wood and Bradford with paper. I have started from the sheep farm and tried to lay track as much as possible without cuts/fills so that I could remove it without loosing too much money. This allowed me to reach the sawmill sooner than I would be able to without removing the track. Hauling wood to paper mill and paper to Bradford is also profitable but once the Leeds grows enough to have room for another bussiness, buy iron mill and connect mine north west from the town and start hauling coal to Leeds, iron to Bradford and when it becomes possible, cars back to Leeds. This is another revenue generator. With this you should have more than enough money for the expenses.
Cash flow from the iron+car train between Manchester and Warrington really helped to jump start everything else.
When things get going, I like to watch train camera with full close up and it is rewarding (see the pictures)
The trick I came up with was to start hauling coal to Manchester (ended up with pair of two car trains sharing single brick bridge and having double track to get the coal hauled as soon as it could be produced). Next was to set up train from Manchester to Warrington, set up passenger service and save enough money to purchase Automobile factory in Warrington and immediatelly switch to hauling iron there and once the Manchester grows enough to accept them, car in opposite dirrection. Hauling iron is rather profitable and hauling cars back even more so (50.000 per car load), distance is short and profit very high. I have setup two trains on this track with three cars each. Unfortunatelly coal mine output was rather low and would not increase.
Next was to connect Manchester to the sheep farm east of it and hooking up Crewe to encourage its growth and use it as destination for clothes because Liverpool first needs grow enough to accept them. After that I have connected Liverpool and started hauling passengers there.
Next was to get track to the sawmill to supply Leeds with wood and Bradford with paper. I have started from the sheep farm and tried to lay track as much as possible without cuts/fills so that I could remove it without loosing too much money. This allowed me to reach the sawmill sooner than I would be able to without removing the track. Hauling wood to paper mill and paper to Bradford is also profitable but once the Leeds grows enough to have room for another bussiness, buy iron mill and connect mine north west from the town and start hauling coal to Leeds, iron to Bradford and when it becomes possible, cars back to Leeds. This is another revenue generator. With this you should have more than enough money for the expenses.
Cash flow from the iron+car train between Manchester and Warrington really helped to jump start everything else.
When things get going, I like to watch train camera with full close up and it is rewarding (see the pictures)
- Attachments
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- Victory screen (too bad it does not show difficulty and routing difficulty)
- mogul_hard_victory.jpg (235.14 KiB) Viewed 10566 times
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- Workers from Bradford going to the beach
- bradford_blackpool_train.jpg (405.7 KiB) Viewed 10568 times
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- Car train from Darby to Liverpool
- darby_liverpool_car_train.jpg (445.31 KiB) Viewed 10568 times
Universum, you obviously get the gold medal for innovative thinking, with gforce a close second! Great feedback from you guys. What was that scenario you had in mind? Anything more specific?Hi karsten,
I did not have anything specific in mind, I just really like American SouthWest because of the scenery and though it could make for a nice scenario.
Think of area covering California, Nevada, Arizona and Utah (map would have to be big to avoid cities too close to each other).
As for ideas for scenario conditions, transcontinental railroad was connected at Promotory Point in Utah in 1869 (google "promontory point"), railroads in California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Pacific_Railroad), railroad connecting Flagstaff with Los Angeles (1882 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arizona_railroads), Grand Canyon Railway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canyon_Railway, railroad really changed small mission called Las Vegas (grow to metropolis), Hollywood (movies were invented, cary carloads of hopeful movie stars), I would bump up price for tunnels and bridges even more than in Liverpool-Manchester. Other events might be California gold rush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California ... _railroads) or Sacramento Valley Railroad.
I did not have anything specific in mind, I just really like American SouthWest because of the scenery and though it could make for a nice scenario.
Think of area covering California, Nevada, Arizona and Utah (map would have to be big to avoid cities too close to each other).
As for ideas for scenario conditions, transcontinental railroad was connected at Promotory Point in Utah in 1869 (google "promontory point"), railroads in California (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Pacific_Railroad), railroad connecting Flagstaff with Los Angeles (1882 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arizona_railroads), Grand Canyon Railway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Canyon_Railway, railroad really changed small mission called Las Vegas (grow to metropolis), Hollywood (movies were invented, cary carloads of hopeful movie stars), I would bump up price for tunnels and bridges even more than in Liverpool-Manchester. Other events might be California gold rush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California ... _railroads) or Sacramento Valley Railroad.
hé karsten,
i read that you're already feeling hungry 4 another map and scenario.
Way 2 GO!
You're the best, so yes, do create a new scenario 4 us, plz...
ps: i'm still impressed by your liverpool-manchester
(and i'm not even talking about the graphics, because my graphics card is pretty old)
GO FOR IT!
i read that you're already feeling hungry 4 another map and scenario.
Way 2 GO!
You're the best, so yes, do create a new scenario 4 us, plz...
ps: i'm still impressed by your liverpool-manchester
(and i'm not even talking about the graphics, because my graphics card is pretty old)GO FOR IT!
I was able to accomplish all objectives on Robber Baron, Hard Routing, 0 AI in December 1927, starting from Warrington.
My early strategy was pretty similar to universum. After selling my stock, I bought a line to Manchester in two steps so that I used a cheap masonry bridge rather than an expensive elevated bridge. I had just enough cash left to fork the line west of the bridge, to the nearby coal. So I started out running passengers & coal to Manchester.
Once I had the cash, I bought the Manchester steel mill, an auto plant in Warrington, and finally a passenger line to Liverpool. The coal-steel-autos was my big money maker, and I ran two trains on the steel-auto portion once Manchester grew to accept autos.
From here on out, it's really about cash management. My rule of thumb was not to create any routes or buy any industries unless they were either (a) required for an objective, or (b) could pay for themselves by the time I finished laying all the track for the objectives (around 1908).
The Leeds-Bradford coal/steel/auto is a great example - it's a fine route in a normal game, but it's EXPENSIVE. Around $800K to track to the coal mine, and $500K for the steel mill in Leeds. The earliest I could get it running was around 1885, and it was still a net loss in 1910. Better to just skip it and use the cash for one of the lines that helps meet an objective.
The closest call for me was the Crewe-Blackpool passenger run. I got the line up in June 1886 and delivered the 20th passenger in January 1912, 1 year before the end of the era.
Has anyone tried playing this map with an AI? I would have been pretty hard-pressed to find the extra cash to buy out an AI while still completing all the objectives.
Kudos to Karsten for a fun & very challenging map!
My early strategy was pretty similar to universum. After selling my stock, I bought a line to Manchester in two steps so that I used a cheap masonry bridge rather than an expensive elevated bridge. I had just enough cash left to fork the line west of the bridge, to the nearby coal. So I started out running passengers & coal to Manchester.
Once I had the cash, I bought the Manchester steel mill, an auto plant in Warrington, and finally a passenger line to Liverpool. The coal-steel-autos was my big money maker, and I ran two trains on the steel-auto portion once Manchester grew to accept autos.
From here on out, it's really about cash management. My rule of thumb was not to create any routes or buy any industries unless they were either (a) required for an objective, or (b) could pay for themselves by the time I finished laying all the track for the objectives (around 1908).
The Leeds-Bradford coal/steel/auto is a great example - it's a fine route in a normal game, but it's EXPENSIVE. Around $800K to track to the coal mine, and $500K for the steel mill in Leeds. The earliest I could get it running was around 1885, and it was still a net loss in 1910. Better to just skip it and use the cash for one of the lines that helps meet an objective.
The closest call for me was the Crewe-Blackpool passenger run. I got the line up in June 1886 and delivered the 20th passenger in January 1912, 1 year before the end of the era.
Has anyone tried playing this map with an AI? I would have been pretty hard-pressed to find the extra cash to buy out an AI while still completing all the objectives.
Kudos to Karsten for a fun & very challenging map!
Drank, Wow! I thought I did pretty good to make it on Mogul. It seems like I have something to learn.
I did not really buy any industry except for the ones I had to. I guess on robber barron it may be the difference. I will have to give it a shot.
Can you post your minimap? I would like to see your routing.
Thanks
I did not really buy any industry except for the ones I had to. I guess on robber barron it may be the difference. I will have to give it a shot.
Can you post your minimap? I would like to see your routing.
Thanks
Here's my routing map. There are long runs from Crewe-Blackpool, Bradford-Blackpool, Darby-Liverpool and Darby-Stoke corresponding to the scenario objectives. All the other cities are connected in pairs and are running passengers back and forth.
My industry chains are:
Coal -> Manchester, Steel -> Warrington, Cars -> Manchester
Wood -> Leeds, Paper -> Bradford
Coal -> Sheffield, Steel -> Darby, Cars -> Liverpool
Wool -> Manchester, Textiles -> Liverpool
Nitrates -> Stoke, Mfg Goods -> Manchester
Nitrates -> Talacre, Mfg Goods -> Warrington
Fish -> Crewe, Food -> Warrington
Coal -> Manchester, Steel -> Stoke, Arms -> Darby/Crewe
All but the first industry chain were created to meet one of the scenario objectives.
My industry chains are:
Coal -> Manchester, Steel -> Warrington, Cars -> Manchester
Wood -> Leeds, Paper -> Bradford
Coal -> Sheffield, Steel -> Darby, Cars -> Liverpool
Wool -> Manchester, Textiles -> Liverpool
Nitrates -> Stoke, Mfg Goods -> Manchester
Nitrates -> Talacre, Mfg Goods -> Warrington
Fish -> Crewe, Food -> Warrington
Coal -> Manchester, Steel -> Stoke, Arms -> Darby/Crewe
All but the first industry chain were created to meet one of the scenario objectives.
- Attachments
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- Map.jpg (49.72 KiB) Viewed 10427 times
drank: he he, great! Universum, why don´t you add your winning minimap, then I can link both posts in the Wiki for those gamers who are looking for a bit of inspiration! Just for a chuckle, here is the layout I was working with in the design stage. Note the coal-steel triangle lower right. Total overkill for the scenario goals, but I wanted to try out Universum´s idea and it worked well (3 trains).
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- LM2 Design stage.jpg (852.34 KiB) Viewed 10413 times
Hi karsten,
I don't have my winning minimap anymore, I wanted to upload it but run into 5 uploads maximum so it did not make it at the time and I have cleaned up screenshot folder since. I am tempted to try the scenario on Robber Baron difficulty so I might post my next attempt.
I did not respond to your question about the possible topic on Mods - Talk forum yet. I am not sure if I can be of much help but we can give it a shot.
I don't have my winning minimap anymore, I wanted to upload it but run into 5 uploads maximum so it did not make it at the time and I have cleaned up screenshot folder since. I am tempted to try the scenario on Robber Baron difficulty so I might post my next attempt.
I did not respond to your question about the possible topic on Mods - Talk forum yet. I am not sure if I can be of much help but we can give it a shot.
Though I have been perusing these forums since they started, this is my first post. I just had to say thanks to Karsten for this map. By far this is my single most favorite map to play, over and over. I must have played it 10 or 12 times now. I simply love the challenges. My nerves actually stand on end when there is only 1 year left for an objective and my train has only just departed the station for the long haul (e.g. Darby autos to Liverpool). I have only succeeded recently with all objectives thanks to the input here from Universum. So I would like to give a shout out to you too sir. Thank you for your insight.
I am a person who just loves trains. My dad models in N scale, while I took on HO scale. I have not done much with my modeling, but my dad is very much into his 16x8 N scale layout. He has been building on it for 22 years now. Recently he showed me an old green wooden box in an attic at my grandparents home in Boston. Inside was an original and complete Lionel train set from 1952! I was just amazed at how new everything looked. It was only played with for about 3 years at the time and has been sitting in this wooden box ever since. We had the locomotive appraised before Christmas at $3200.00. Not bad if I say so myself. He even had the original bottle of liquid smoke that you pour into the stack for added realism when the train gets hot. A working spotlight car, a milkman who comes out of the house and puts little cartons onto a train, a rocket car... gosh it was all just amazing to me. It felt like I took a step back in time. I love trains, always have. My dad was born in '44 so he was 8 yrs old when he got that set. I am now 40 and I felt like I was 8 yrs old pulling all the track out and setting up a quick oval to give the ole engine a run. And run she did... smoke billowing out, spotlights on, milkman making his deliveries, and working lighted crossing gates coming down as the train nears a crossover. All made out of metal, everything, no plastic. I was in train heaven for a day.... It's all back in that green wooden chest now. Like a fine wine she will be all the more exhilarating with the passage of time.
Anyhow back to the praise of the map maker. I look forward to your next map. I have actually downloaded and played all maps available here. Some are good, some are not. I have only played this map on the easiest of settings. I may move up to robber baron, but for now, I am having fun just as it is. I am attaching my latest saved game as I played it and then continued to play it even after I won.
G3mInI
I am a person who just loves trains. My dad models in N scale, while I took on HO scale. I have not done much with my modeling, but my dad is very much into his 16x8 N scale layout. He has been building on it for 22 years now. Recently he showed me an old green wooden box in an attic at my grandparents home in Boston. Inside was an original and complete Lionel train set from 1952! I was just amazed at how new everything looked. It was only played with for about 3 years at the time and has been sitting in this wooden box ever since. We had the locomotive appraised before Christmas at $3200.00. Not bad if I say so myself. He even had the original bottle of liquid smoke that you pour into the stack for added realism when the train gets hot. A working spotlight car, a milkman who comes out of the house and puts little cartons onto a train, a rocket car... gosh it was all just amazing to me. It felt like I took a step back in time. I love trains, always have. My dad was born in '44 so he was 8 yrs old when he got that set. I am now 40 and I felt like I was 8 yrs old pulling all the track out and setting up a quick oval to give the ole engine a run. And run she did... smoke billowing out, spotlights on, milkman making his deliveries, and working lighted crossing gates coming down as the train nears a crossover. All made out of metal, everything, no plastic. I was in train heaven for a day.... It's all back in that green wooden chest now. Like a fine wine she will be all the more exhilarating with the passage of time.
Anyhow back to the praise of the map maker. I look forward to your next map. I have actually downloaded and played all maps available here. Some are good, some are not. I have only played this map on the easiest of settings. I may move up to robber baron, but for now, I am having fun just as it is. I am attaching my latest saved game as I played it and then continued to play it even after I won.
G3mInI
- Attachments
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- liverpool-manchester-1975-95mil.zip
- (1.12 MiB) Downloaded 325 times