Smr Simple!

I got pretty curious about how passenger lines work, so I started a new game on financier difficulty (which doesn't affect rates on income.) I experimented with a bunch of passenger lines and drew the following conclusions. All settlements had fully upgraded terminals; all tests were done without the benefit of Pullman's Palace Car.
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The size of a settlement does not influence the value of passengers or mail, either incoming our outgoing; it only affects the amount of passengers it can generate. If a train runs, without interruption, between City A and Town B, it will generate the same revenue at both stops*.

The longer it takes to deliver passengers, the less revenue they will generate. Slower trains, or trains that have to wait for another train to move before they can pull into the station, will generate less income; ~5 seconds would cost me ~$1500 per car.

The farther a train travels, the more money it makes. A 10 mile trip at about 40mph made somewhere around $12,000 per car. A 20 mile trip made somewhere around $18,000 per car, and a 30 mile trip made somewhere around $27,000 per car.

Engine type does not make any difference. An American that delivers one car from City A to City C will make the same amount of money as a Golden State that completes it in the same amount of time (ie longer track, heavier load, delay at the station.) Of course, better trains will generally move faster, delivering the load in less time, and make more money in a practical application. Fuel type (steam, electric, diesel) also doesn't seem to make a difference. Top speed on a trip doesn't make a difference, either, only average speed (ie the time it takes to get there.) Routes with elevation changes or that travel by or over water also do not generate a bonus for being 'scenic', it seems the only variable is average speed (distance and time.)

Not all cars in a train will make the same amount of money. Cars towards the back will be unloaded after those in the front and may make less money due to a longer commute time. Additionally, if a city has a supply of 0 passengers, it will often 'fill' one additional passenger car. This car will be incomplete and will make less money when it pulls into station. It seems to weigh the train down just as much as a full car, however.

A record-setting train (ie. yellow name) seems to make a little bit more money than a standard train. It also seems to move a little bit faster, I couldn't determine if the increased speed was due to the fact that it had set a record or maybe somehow due to the track it was on, and I'm not sure if the increased money was due to it's appearantly higher speed or due to the fact that it was a special train. However, I am certain that it pulled in about $1,500 more, per car, than a 'standard' train with the same engine and the same load.

If the price of mail is the same as the price of passengers in the commodity window, then they will indeed make the same revenue. However, mail is slightly lighter than passengers, therefore the train will make better time and an engine pulling only mail cars will make more money than one pulling only passenger cars.

Passengers are worth a lot more in the beginning of the game, and their value on the commodity screen will drop over the first decade or so. Even a meager grasshopper pulling one passenger car 20 miles can make around 40,000 a trip in the early years.

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* I had one odd exception to the findings above. I had a train, pulling one passenger car, travelling between City A and Town B. Both had fully upgraded terminals. The trip was about ten miles. The train used the same track both ways. In City A, it would generate $12,000 per car. However, in Town B, in would only generate $10,500. it was the only train in Town B, there was no delay and the train did not seem to move any slower on the way from the city to the town. I initially thought that towns made less money than cities and metros; however I connected a few other towns and saw this was not the case. Town B soon evolved into City B, and it continued to make less money than City A.

Storm,

Thanks for these detailed notes. I've been trying to figure out the economics. Your fourth paragraph is esp. interesting.

Would I be reading them correctly if I said, it looks like short ping-pong passenger and mail (p&m) trips are better than long ones - if you have e.g. a number of cities along a stretch of track? You're making 9k/car per 10 miles, for the 20 and 30 mile trips, but 12k/car per 10 miles for the 10-mile trip.

Also: Any thoughts on how to deal with the extreme drop in price for p&m over time? (Do you think demand would be great and prices stay high, if you only had, say, two p&m routes for the whole game? Or is it city-dependent? Hmm)

Thanks for your ideas! - RK

Storm - also compare my thread with questions on economics.

I would say make as many as possible quickly ... if you have other players in the same game ... you all effect the global demand.

I would think even if you are alone to do it as fast as possible ... the game is all about making money quickly so you can expand.

I have found that there are 2 ways to make money with passengers/mail.

1) Ping pong routes with 1 passenger 1 mail with relatively cheap to maintain engines. - usually best in the early game

2) extremely long routes with VERY fast trains. Usually best later in the game since to keep these trains moving very fast you should really use only one train per track. - But then I am biased I nearly ALWAYS use one train per track and nearly always win on the hardest level with scores >250

In a test in the early game (Northeast scenario using a Mogul, speed 50, May 1857) I made a long straight track from DC to NYC, including terminals at the 5 cities between. The train moved at top speed (50) with only two full cars, of either mail or passengers. I started with an identical savegame each time, so there were no changes due to other effects or prices dropping over time. No other trains were working these cities, and none in the game were doing passengers or mail. All tests started from Washington, DC. (They were also spot-checked by reversing the route.)

Findings were turned into dollars per car per month (car-months). For example, it takes 3 months for a passenger train to go from DC to Baltimore, and each passenger car gave $37,500. This is $12,500 per car-month. DC to NYC was 15 months and $97,500 ($6,500 per car-month).

Values per car-month for Passengers was $12,500 to Baltimore, ~$7k to Aberdeen and Wilmington (middling distances), and ~$6k for Philly, Trenton, and NYC.

Mail was $9,500 per car-month ($28,500/3) to Baltimore, then decreased steadily along the route, from $5,250 for Aberdeen, to $2,600 for NYC. Mail is even more sensitive to time, and thus even more important to have on short routes.

(The Mogul took the same number of months to go from DC to a specific target city, regardless of whether hauling passengers or mail.)

In this test scenario, the numbers clearly favor very short ping-pong routes for Passengers and Mail. In other words, time is more important than distance, especially for mail.

As further proof: There was a slight slope between my Baltimore and DC terminals, which caused one way to be 3 months and the other to be 4. The 3-month way netted $37,500 per Passenger car; the longer way netted $31,500.

At that point in the game, Mail was listed as being at $6k, and Passengers at $10k.

So, it's like your info said, Storm.

Also, Davion, like you say, it's entirely possible that the high speeds of later trains may make up for this... also known as, the time becomes so little that the distance factor rules the results. I'll test again when I get some fast ones.

There also appears to be a cut-off for the speed and distance bonus. A Grasshopper doing only 18 mph (with two cars) on the same route (also in 1857) got only $18,000 per Mail car, regardless of whether to Baltimore (6 months), NYC (19 mos.), or any city in between. There must be a very steep decline in the speed and distance bonus, if 3 months to Baltimore means a $10,500 bonus ($28,500-18,000), but 6 months means none.

Conversely, it did not matter how quickly or how far a shipment of Manufactured Goods went, to any city on the line. It always received $32,000, its "list price" (as of 1857). Still, because you can do more shipping to closer cities as a function of time, shorter routes are also better for other resources.

I haven't studied the big price props to the Passenger and Mail fees very early in the game. They may make it more profitable to run a train slowed down by extra cars, before the American engine becomes available.