Power plant and Steel in the same city

[SierraElite]

I tried putting both in a city and at first it seemed that every load was making the same money between them, but I tried it just now and it doesn't seem to. Has anyone else tried this with any success?

[WoodenSpoons]

having a powerplant is realy bad cos it makes you produce less steal meaning less cars can be made with it which is the mostexpensive good, you earn lots more just having a steel mill never have power plant they are pointless and drain imports

hope this helps

[captaintractor]

Ya, i noticed the same fault, pointless production, you do get some income if you own the power station but i never noticed that it was very much, a power station should really speed the city growth and produce lots of passengers and mail, say double what is normal for an unpowered city of same size.

[darthdroid]

Ya, i noticed the same fault, pointless production, you do get some income if you own the power station but i never noticed that it was very much, a power station should really speed the city growth and produce lots of passengers and mail, say double what is normal for an unpowered city of same size.

I just wanted to comment on this. While yes, you'd prefer to have only a steel factory, there is still plenty of money in 50% of a steel factory. 50% because 1/2 the steel goes to the powerplant. But let me make it clear: Even if the coal mine I'm using is small size, I would still even BUILD a steel mill in this town I am already working the coal with for my power plant. The 500k is not justified by the coal no, but $1,000,000 is justified if you squeeze a car factory or bomb factory out of it, all the more true if it is nearby.

I just played a scenario like this, it was on River's Run. There was a bomb factory at Gress and coal all around Gress. Nearby was Malicki which was a village with no industry and on the other side was Burgess (the closest to one of the coal mines) and it had a powerplant in it (village).

Clearly Malicki was the best choice, so I set up a route from Gress to Malicki and waited hard and long for 500K to build up (this was at the beginning of the game mind you) and build a steel mine. Connected it to 2 of the 3 nearby coal mines. The 3rd coal mine was again nearest (much nearer) to Burgess. Another online player went there and set up a single route from Burgess to the Coal Mine and began using the power plant.

Next I came in to Burgess and set up a route facing North to Rick's Landing because it was set up for quick growth (Nitrate factory and 3 nitrates nearby). And of course I began stealing the other player's coal to Burgess also. Once the cities grew, I first built a hospital in Burgess as the dollar amount on the pill production would be higher than bombs. But soon enough, I built a bomb factory at Rick's Landing and a Steel Mill at Burgess, and also a Textiles factory at Rick's Landing. So note, total, of 6 industries between the 2 cities, I built 4 of them.

The trains on these routes (which are pretty long routes by my standards) made close to $1,000,000 each (there were 2 trains shipping back and forth between Rick's and Burgess.

Just wanted to demonstrate how one should think about not only the opportunity presented by a Powerplant with coal nearby, but also about building industries in general. 500K isn't very much after a few years if you're producing well.

In fine, not only is it worth your time to use a city with both powerplant and steel mill, I'd go further and argue that it is worth the time and money to actually BUILD a steel factory in a town/village/city/metropolis that already has a powerplant with coal nearby. Now if there is a better city to utilize the coal from, by all means ignore the argument, but if that city (the one with the powerplant) IS the best city (by "best" I mean closest to the coal) then by all means do it (build the steel mill).

[snoopy55]

Need to clear up a few things here......

Ya, i noticed the same fault, pointless production, you do get some income if you own the power station but i never noticed that it was very much, a power station should really speed the city growth and produce lots of passengers and mail, say double what is normal for an unpowered city of same size.

I just wanted to comment on this. While yes, you'd prefer to have only a steel factory, there is still plenty of money in 50% of a steel factory. 50% because 1/2 the steel goes to the powerplant.

Why are you sending "steel" to a power plant? You building it, or repairing it?

But let me make it clear: Even if the coal mine I'm using is small size, I would still even BUILD a steel mill in this town I am already working the coal with for my power plant. The 500k is not justified by the coal no, but $1,000,000 is justified if you squeeze a car factory or bomb factory out of it, all the more true if it is nearby.

I just played a scenario like this, it was on River's Run. There was a bomb factory at Gress and coal all around Gress. Nearby was Malicki which was a village with no industry and on the other side was Burgess (the closest to one of the coal mines) and it had a powerplant in it (village).

Clearly Malicki was the best choice, so I set up a route from Gress to Malicki and waited hard and long for 500K to build up (this was at the beginning of the game mind you) and build a steel mine.

Steel Mine huh? Does the Steel from this Steel Mine go to the Power Plant to repair it also?

Connected it to 2 of the 3 nearby coal mines. The 3rd coal mine was again nearest (much nearer) to Burgess. Another online player went there and set up a single route from Burgess to the Coal Mine and began using the power plant.

Next I came in to Burgess and set up a route facing North to Rick's Landing because it was set up for quick growth (Nitrate factory and 3 nitrates nearby).

And at this Nitrate Factory, they make Nitrates out of the Nitrates? Now THOSE could burn in the Power Plant!

And of course I began stealing the other player's coal to Burgess also. Once the cities grew, I first built a hospital in Burgess as the dollar amount on the pill production would be higher than bombs. But soon enough, I built a bomb factory at Rick's Landing and a Steel Mill at Burgess, and also a Textiles factory at Rick's Landing. So note, total, of 6 industries between the 2 cities, I built 4 of them.

The trains on these routes (which are pretty long routes by my standards) made close to $1,000,000 each (there were 2 trains shipping back and forth between Rick's and Burgess.

Just wanted to demonstrate how one should think about not only the opportunity presented by a Powerplant with coal nearby, but also about building industries in general. 500K isn't very much after a few years if you're producing well.

In fine, not only is it worth your time to use a city with both powerplant and steel mill, I'd go further and argue that it is worth the time and money to actually BUILD a steel factory in a town/village/city/metropolis that already has a powerplant with coal nearby. Now if there is a better city to utilize the coal from, by all means ignore the argument, but if that city (the one with the powerplant) IS the best city (by "best" I mean closest to the coal) then by all means do it (build the steel mill).

[darthdroid]

Need to clear up a few things here......

Ya, i noticed the same fault, pointless production, you do get some income if you own the power station but i never noticed that it was very much, a power station should really speed the city growth and produce lots of passengers and mail, say double what is normal for an unpowered city of same size.

I just wanted to comment on this. While yes, you'd prefer to have only a steel factory, there is still plenty of money in 50% of a steel factory. 50% because 1/2 the steel goes to the powerplant.

Why are you sending "steel" to a power plant? You building it, or repairing it?

But let me make it clear: Even if the coal mine I'm using is small size, I would still even BUILD a steel mill in this town I am already working the coal with for my power plant. The 500k is not justified by the coal no, but $1,000,000 is justified if you squeeze a car factory or bomb factory out of it, all the more true if it is nearby.

I just played a scenario like this, it was on River's Run. There was a bomb factory at Gress and coal all around Gress. Nearby was Malicki which was a village with no industry and on the other side was Burgess (the closest to one of the coal mines) and it had a powerplant in it (village).

Clearly Malicki was the best choice, so I set up a route from Gress to Malicki and waited hard and long for 500K to build up (this was at the beginning of the game mind you) and build a steel mine.

Steel Mine huh? Does the Steel from this Steel Mine go to the Power Plant to repair it also?

Connected it to 2 of the 3 nearby coal mines. The 3rd coal mine was again nearest (much nearer) to Burgess. Another online player went there and set up a single route from Burgess to the Coal Mine and began using the power plant.

Next I came in to Burgess and set up a route facing North to Rick's Landing because it was set up for quick growth (Nitrate factory and 3 nitrates nearby).

And at this Nitrate Factory, they make Nitrates out of the Nitrates? Now THOSE could burn in the Power Plant!

And of course I began stealing the other player's coal to Burgess also. Once the cities grew, I first built a hospital in Burgess as the dollar amount on the pill production would be higher than bombs. But soon enough, I built a bomb factory at Rick's Landing and a Steel Mill at Burgess, and also a Textiles factory at Rick's Landing. So note, total, of 6 industries between the 2 cities, I built 4 of them.

The trains on these routes (which are pretty long routes by my standards) made close to $1,000,000 each (there were 2 trains shipping back and forth between Rick's and Burgess.

Just wanted to demonstrate how one should think about not only the opportunity presented by a Powerplant with coal nearby, but also about building industries in general. 500K isn't very much after a few years if you're producing well.

In fine, not only is it worth your time to use a city with both powerplant and steel mill, I'd go further and argue that it is worth the time and money to actually BUILD a steel factory in a town/village/city/metropolis that already has a powerplant with coal nearby. Now if there is a better city to utilize the coal from, by all means ignore the argument, but if that city (the one with the powerplant) IS the best city (by "best" I mean closest to the coal) then by all means do it (build the steel mill).

I understand, the strategy discussion is way over your head so the best you can do is fiddle about with terms and jargon and whether or not it's up to OCD Modder standards? This is precisely why you should stay out of the strategy area-your knowledge in this area is useless and all you have is some technical jargon that helps nobody. And you've actually offered no help to anyone since you've returned... and I'm starting to suspect a medication problem here. Are you okay snoopy?

[Jancsika]

Captaintractor wrote:

Ya, i noticed the same fault, pointless production, you do get some income if you own the power station but i never noticed that it was very much, a power station should really speed the city growth and produce lots of passengers and mail, say double what is normal for an unpowered city of same size.

If you are playing a plain Firaxis scenario, the Power Plant only consumes coal or oil and you get only the income what the price of the coal or oil is.
It does not increases the production of passengers or mail. It however speeds up the time to have the village grow to town to city, etc. And larger cities will produce more passengers and mail.

It is a bad tactic to have in a city two industries using the same resource, one of them will be shortchanged.

If you know how to edit an XML file you can edit the RRT_Industries_MAPNAME.XML file and change the production to anything you want.
But I suggest that you better know what you are doing.
Jancsika.

[darthdroid]

Captaintractor wrote:

Ya, i noticed the same fault, pointless production, you do get some income if you own the power station but i never noticed that it was very much, a power station should really speed the city growth and produce lots of passengers and mail, say double what is normal for an unpowered city of same size.

If you are playing a plain Firaxis scenario, the Power Plant only consumes coal or oil and you get only the income what the price of the coal or oil is.
It does not increases the production of passengers or mail. It however speeds up the time to have the village grow to town to city, etc. And larger cities will produce more passengers and mail.

It is a bad tactic to have in a city two industries using the same resource, one of them will be shortchanged.

If you know how to edit an XML file you can edit the RRT_Industries_MAPNAME.XML file and change the production to anything you want.
But I suggest that you better know what you are doing.
Jancsika.

jancsika, what do you mean by "one of them gets shortchanged"? I mean it's 50/50 is it not? From my experience, both industries get about the same amount of coal (or oil in the case of manufactured goods), but what you say makes it sound like it's not a 50/50 ratio. Am I missing something? Or do you just disagree with what I said?

[snoopy55]

Jancsika, this was discussed somewhere else on the forum. I thought it was Lowell who first answered it and it was tested by two or three of us. Do you happen to remember where that was?

I do believe it was found that one industry grabs most of it up and it takes quite a while for the other to show any production, quite a while.

Heck, set up a map with both a Steel Plant and a Power Plant in the same city and see what happens (don't ship any Oil in of course ). I might be wrong, but I'm sure it was discussed and I'm pretty sure I was one of the ones testing it. I believe I was in the middle of constructing a car.

[darthdroid]

Jancsika, this was discussed somewhere else on the forum. I thought it was Lowell who first answered it and it was tested by two or three of us. Do you happen to remember where that was?

I do believe it was found that one industry grabs most of it up and it takes quite a while for the other to show any production, quite a while.

Heck, set up a map with both a Steel Plant and a Power Plant in the same city and see what happens (don't ship any Oil in of course ). I might be wrong, but I'm sure it was discussed and I'm pretty sure I was one of the ones testing it. I believe I was in the middle of constructing a car.

I'm testing it right now as you both aroused my curiosity. So far it's definitely about 50/50. We know that coal receives the same value either way, so it's not like one industry (powerplant say) gets more money for a carload than the other industry (steel mill in this case). Both industries make the same $ from a car load of coal as coal has a fixed value.

So with that in mind, this question is one of logistics or distribution, ie WHERE does the coal go. (Assuming I understand this debate correctly).

As I said, so far both industries show within 1% the same yearly revenue. It is slightly off, but sometimes one is ahead, sometimes the other, but the difference is always like $200. So if it's not 50/50 its 49/51 and then that reverses to 51/49... so suspect in the long run, it's truly 50/50. It's only done one year so far, so I'll play it out for 10 just to see.

[darthdroid]

I had a thought though: I do think it's plausible that an event could cause one or the other to be higher. Like what if the price of steel goes up? Or what if gas prices go up or something like that? Perhaps that could make a difference, but I doubt it would be huge, nor would it indicate the OTHER industry would get less (it would still get 50% of the coal)... it would just change yearly revenues.

[darthdroid]

Ah: Here's a strategy tidbit for you, it's a bit of a silly one, but you may find it interesting:

When you build the 3rd industry on a city (which already has 2), if you click very fast (and have a million dollars) it will actually build that industry TWO times-as though the game didn't have time to register the industries were filled up before the 2nd click. So you end up with a city that has FOUR industries.

The relevance is this: Based on what I'm seeing (the 50/50 ratio) I would argue that it's likely that you could change the ratio to 67% to steel and 33% to power by having 2 steel mills. Just a silly thought, probably doesn't look good on the cost benefit analysis sheet, but it would be fun to see.

[darthdroid]

this will require some more testing. But this is what I'm seeing:

The steel mill has been consistently 13k ahead of the power plant (now at about 27 years). It's not a percentage above it, it's clearly a fixed dollar amount around 13k.

The only strange thing is that when I watch the annual profits, the steel mill is around 200 behind 90% of the time. So it's strange that it would make more Revenue overall. I watched them all the way from 50k revenue up to over 200k now, it's still a 13k difference. This leads me to believe that something happened in the early years when I wasn't watching the industry itself (just the city on the map and its numbers). I am guessing it is an event like I hypothesized above.

Now the numbers are exactly even, perfectly 50% to each for every delivery. No difference at all. But that 13k in overall revenue remains-I'll see if I can get to the bottom of it

[darthdroid]

K,

At about 35 years into the test, the steel mill jumped ahead by about 30%, so now for every $3k the steel mill makes, the powerplant gets $2.1k.... So one has a total revenue of about 720k and the other (steel) is at about 780k. So there's now around an 8% difference overall. I would point out that 35 years is a very, very long time. So if this is about the point when it happens, it's quite irrelevant-how many games last that long? Is this a depreciation issue?? (powerplant depreciates faster than steel plant and begins accepting less?? Who knows. I'll do a few more tests.

[Jancsika]

Jancsika, this was discussed somewhere else on the forum. I thought it was Lowell who first answered it and it was tested by two or three of us. Do you happen to remember where that was?

I do believe it was found that one industry grabs most of it up and it takes quite a while for the other to show any production, quite a while

Yes, this was discussed sometimes in the past and was found that one industry was grabbing most of the supply and the other was using just the leftovers. As to why? It was never decided. My suspicion is that might be the way the computer analyses the demands, one at a time, and that depends the way the setup in the XML files, but that was never checked or proven.
Also if you invest 500.000 a piece in industries and they run at half the capacity, it might be better to place them in different cities.(Too many trains in one city!) Of course this is just common sense, which we do use sometimes.
Jancsika