New life for the railroads

[Jancsika]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8010221.stm

Interesting!
Jancsika

[Greybriar]

Four hours and 20 minutes to cover 157 miles?! That's too slow for a train, passenger or freight. Trucks and buses travel faster than that.

[Jancsika]

Couple nights ago there was an item about the freight trains in Chicago on the Newshour. There they move at 10 - 12 miles/hr. Sometimes the crew from the train has to get down and throw a switch.
It is much slower than the truck traffic, but it is cheaper and less polluting.
A major upgrade of the tracks is needed.
Jancsika

[Greybriar]

The speed of a train in a City like Chicago is much slower than the speed of a train on a track between cities. There are no switches to throw on main lines. Those passenger trains running between Vancouver and Seattle should be express trains running at 80 or 90 miles per hour, I think.

Of course, the tracks have to be in good condition to handle trains running at high speed. If they are in poor condition, that would explain the slow rate of speed.

[Star Ranger4]

That is exactly the problem at the moment Greybriar, according to the article Janseka posted. The tracks are NOT ususally in good enough condition to allow that sort of speed safely. I would assume that is why there is a speed limit of 70mph... though I thought the speed limit only applied to Interstate highways, not railroads. could this person have mixed metephors or just gotten their info wrong?

Anyway, thats why an infusion of capitol is needed, to bring the tracks into a condition that will support such speeds safely; Most HST's are also electric, and electrified track is rare in the west. 90% of all electrified track outside of the NE corridor is found in urban light rail systems. So thats an additional item needed unless someone gets smart and revives CanadaRail's old TurboTrain tech.

[Jancsika]

Try this link. This is the Newshour with Jim Lehrer on April 21, 2009.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/transpor ... 04-21.html
Jancsika
PS.
Notice the featured engine in the heading!

[keotaman]

Lots of confusion about the new railroad stimulus funding. $8 B is not much for "building" new systems, it will just barely pay for some of the necessary studies. The administration wants action fast, so funding is only for new projects within 18 months or so; new systems will take 8-15 years to build, and $8 B will maybe cover 300 miles! So thinking that this new money will bring about HST is simply wrong, it's only part of the first step. Some of the money "may" creep into roadbed/track improvements, that will be it's only foreseeable benefit.

Much more advantage would have been gained with track improvements to raise the lower speed restrictions, such as 10-20 mph sections upgraded to 40-45 mph, rather than raising the fastest sections from 79 (not 70, SR4) to 110 mph. BTW, the 79mph FRA speed limit is for trains without PTC or Cab Signaling. There is no Federal highway speed limit, that is State's Rights, although states may lose some federal subsidy funding for having speed limits higher than rec., such as when we had that stupid 55mph recommendation.

In the same way that "making up time" depends not on time spent speeding faster, but on reducing slow and null (zero speed) time, increasing average transit speeds is more dependent on reducing the slow sections:
Class 1 - 5 miles at 15mph = 1200 secs = 20 minutes
Class 3 - 5 miles at 45mph = 400 secs = 6 min 40 secs
Gained 13:20 running time reduction, for maybe $200,000 per mile or less.

Class 4 - 5 miles at 79mph = 227 secs = 3 min 47 secs
Class 6 - 5 miles at 110mph = 164 secs = 2 min 44 secs
Gained 1:03 running time reduction, for maybe $3,000,000 per mile or more.

In addition, each upgrade to a higher class of track (1 to 9) is much harder and more expensive than the previous upgrade interval.

"FRA’s track safety standards establish nine specific classes of track (Class 1 to Class 9), plus a category known as Excepted Track. The difference between each Class of Track is based on progressively more exacting standards for track structure, geometry, and inspection frequency. Furthermore, each Class of Track has a corresponding maximum allowable operating speed for both freight and passenger trains. The higher the Class of Track, the greater the allowable track speed and the more stringent track safety standards apply"
Class - - Freight - Psgr.
Excepted 10mph - N/A
Class 1 -10 mph - 15 mph
Class 2 -25 mph - 30 mph
Class 3 -40 mph - 60 mph
Class 4 -60 mph - 80 mph * Most US tracks, 80-1=79mph max
Class 5 -80 mph - 90 mph
Class 6 - N/A - - 110 mph
Class 7 - N/A - - 125 mph
Class 8 - N/A - - 150 mph
Class 9 - N/A - - 200 mph
http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/PubAff ... 0FINAL.pdf

BTW, FRA speeding fines/sanctions apply at 10 mph or 10% over the maximum permissible speed, whichever is smaller, although most railroads are about twice as restrictive, i.e. - 5mph or 10% over.

We were taught over and over that you don't make up time by going faster (you are already supposed to travel at the maximum!), you make up time by reducing delays.

Keo

[keotaman]

Construction begins on railroad sidetrack to reduce Amtrak delays http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stor ... ily10.html

This is one type of project we need in the USA. A nearly 2 mile siding to allow faster trains to pass slower ones in that 25-mile stretch of single track. New construction IS expensive, but cheaper than double-tracking it all the way!
Notice that the funding has nothing to do with the administrations "stimulus" package.

[Jancsika]

This is the Japanese bullet train.
Now that is speed and punctuality. The average delay is 6 seconds!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/w ... 955345.stm

Jancsika

[Lowell]

I rode the bullet train back in '77 or '78 when I was at Yacoda AFB Japan. It was super cool then and still is. The trains used in the back country were very old and had a hard ride. I got up to let an eighty year old woman sit in my seat, and she refused. Only to see a young male get on at the next stop and take the seat. What a putz he was, but they have a male dominated society so I was out of place. At least I kept my gentleman manners about myself. They have tons of trains there on that island. Everything is squeezed between highways, tracks and buildings. Mt Fuji and the other mountains were about the only place for the trees. Just kidding, they have trees throughout the towns etc.

A mod for the Japan rail lines would be a cool addition to the maps here...just a thought.