Ladder

[darthdroid]

I know the majority of the members appear to be modders (or at least the majority of active members). But I was wondering how do games get ladders? SMR really needs one and it would be very cool for us all to know where we stand (those of us who like the online play).

But frankly it seems like the game has been abandoned, no more patches, no plans to fix remaining glitches, etc. Is there any program or any way to make a ladder without firaxis?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Burlington_Northern_3140]

I would like to see a ladder.

[snoopy55]

Yes, there is. You first have to get a group who wants to do the online compitition. They then need to set guidelines and playing rules, and decide a way for scoring to be able to climb the ladder. The best way to go from there would be two threads. The first would be for the rules and Guidelines, and other needed data. This would be in the first post. The second post would contain the members names, to which a referee type person who would edit the list and keep it updated. That would be the end of that thread, no comments, no discussion. Then you would create a second thread that would be used for the comments and discussions.

Simple to do. It's the starting up and the guidelines that may or may not be the problem.......

[darthdroid]

Sounds complicated, I just assumed the game kept track of it. Personally I'm okay with thunderdome rules (ie pretty much no rules). I don't care what other people do. But hey it was nice daydreaming about it for 5 minutes, thanks for clarifying how it works snoopy.

[darthdroid]

Sorry, one more thing.

I thought falconer said something about a "ladder PROGRAM". Can you elaborate on the program part? What you described sounds more human-managed. So what is falconer talking about or what am I missing?

[darthdroid]

Falconer

Post subject: Do any of you ever play online?
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:40 pm
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... I'm asking because I'm once again entertaining the idea of installing ladder software for the forums. The ladders would let you challenge others and compete for the highest place in the rankings. Useful? Or a feature that will never see any action?

'''See he said software? So what's he talking about ?'''

[snoopy55]

Sorry, I just now read that also.

If there was a program, someone would still have to make the entries to that program I'm guessing. Or, the games would be played thru this server with the program on it. My thought was just a simple way. Guidelines are set up. Member list made up. As people play, the ladder is updated. PMs could be sent to the Ladder Moderator by both players and the Ladder would be updated. Even using a program, someone has to make the entries into the program for the results to be posted.

Hey, don't let me spoil your dreams, I just made a suggestion.

[darthdroid]

Okay, so I play too much online Railroads...but the ladder isn't one of my dreams lol. It was just a fun thought, just like custom maps that don't crash online.

Well... Hopefully it's more like you said that it's run through the site or whatever, I'd prefer if the cold software claimed the winner and entered it automatically. Otherwise it just sounds kinda messy. And I really don't think it could work with a set of rules, I think it would have to be "anything goes" including tracksneaking, etc. Which is fine by me, bring it on. But I'm just saying something like that really has to be pure : A cold computer and essentially no rules.
Bring moderators into it and I think the hassle will outweigh the fun.... You'd understand what I mean if you played online... lots of arguments. Guys that quit right before they were to be beat and then claim they either didn't lose or actually won because you used some tactic they don't like (like a bridge). etc.... I just don't think it would be fun with human beings and rules controlling it.

But anyway, hopefully Facloner actually has some software. I'm sure we'll hear from him within a couple days anyway....hopefully it's good news.
If it is, the demand for the ladder would be huge, much bigger than you modders realize...

[snoopy55]

By "rules", i meant how the Ladder was climbed, by points or by "I won, I go up 1 you go down 1", or "I won, we traid places". And both parties PM the match results before the Ladder is adjusted.

As to game rules...yah, like the real world, or close to it, anything goes. The guidlines were for Ladder control and movement.

And the "Moderator" was the only name I could think of for the guy who adjusted the Ladder. He'd have NO bussiness in the games being played. Only the person setting up the Ladder could edit it's contents. Nope, would be no Government guys allowed in the battle for the last railroad tychoon standing......

[darthdroid]

That sounds fair, and the you go up one, i go down one makes sense. Or just getting a point for each won match. And perhaps one should get more points for taking down someone higher on the ladder. Otherwise, 2 noobs could sit there and beat each other or a fake 2nd name all day long, and result in a false high ladder score. But I like where you're headed with it.

[snoopy55]

And now you see what I meant by "setting Guidelines". In another thread it was mentioned that if two members played, they would switch places. So, forom youe numbers, let's say there are 75 people on the Ladder. I come in and challenge you, who iare at the top. I beat you. I, the one who just joined, jump to number one and you drop to number 76? Not good, in my opinion.

But, these are the Guideline that the first set of members would have to set up. Do we climb the ladder by 1 for each victory? Do we have a step up for each million we had over the other guy? Half million? What if the top guy decides that he wants to take a break from playing, for about four months? Does he loose rungs for not playing, or does he just sit there? Do you loose rungs for declining a challenge? How often do you have to accept a challenge? Can ten guys decide to play you out of your mind?

Some of that could be decided by a point system....don't play for a while, someone else can pass you with just their points. You don't play for a month.... minus some number of points. Decline a challenge...minus some number of points. Don't play for so long and you're dropped from the Ladder, and if you decide to come back, you start at the bottom. Do a "I'm playing as more than one player" and you're banned.

It just takes some Guidelines, just like the game itself has, tho they're not the best. The good part about the Ladders' Guidelines is that they would be written by those that are going to use them.

[darthdroid]

That all makes good sense. I would also say because, assuming players are pretty evenly matched that starting points can give an advantage. As such, it seems like all matches should be 2/3 and no crying if you get a bad starting point for both of 2 losses that lead to points.
Personally I like all your ideas except the points system I do think should have weights. By that I mean that one should get more points for beating a badass than for beating a noob. Because again it seems like one could artificially raise points pretty easy by setting up easy matches for themself or only challenging bad players, etc.

The point weights would of course be based on current standing with perhaps an additional weight added based upon how that person's record was.

Example, Say I'm number 2 on the ladder, and my record is 62-1 (1 loss). Someone should get more standing on the ladder for beating me than they should for a noob with a 0-10 record. See what I mean? I don't think it would be hard to come up with a formula to weight points accordingly based on WHO you beat. Other factors could be considered... But I don't think "by how many million" is a good idea as one could just sit and make $ to raise this in a fake way, and so forth. Instead, how bout bonuses for winning QUICKLY like if you take them out in 10 minutes or less it doubles the points you'd have had, 5 minutes or less and they're tripled...

Just some ideas.

[Falconer]

Yup, I think I even asked if there was interest in a ladder more than once. There just weren't enough responses to warrant the work that it would involve. If you guys set up a 'manual' ladder here in the forum and it gets some action, I'll most definitely pick it up again.

[darthdroid]

Thanks Falconer,

2 questions: 1/ Can you describe how a manual ladder works? I've really no idea and the plan will go nowhere if you don't help with some ideas.

2/ If I begin taking a list of names of those interested in a ladder, would you reconsider? I say this because I don't think you realize that the game really has 2 separate cultures: Modders and Onliners. The onliners don't come to hookedgamers.com....So I don't think you acquired an accurate idea of the actual interest there is in it.

Also, on point 2, I would also like to point out that creating a real ladder on the site (the one you said would be a lot of work) WOULD get all the onliners to come here and integrate the two groups a lot more. Currently I really feel like we have me, Burlington Northern and very rarely someone else who comes onto the site from the online group which is easily a couple hundred people....

Looking forward to your thoughts and ideas.

[Burlington_Northern_3140]

There also apears to be very few people who look for websites for Sid Meyer's Railroads. I am often asked for cures to vista problems and I show them the link to the site. Whenever I bring up the subject of the website, there are tons of people who are supprised of the existance of Hooked Gamers. It often leeds to me copying the address and posting it for them all to follow.

It might help to just show the link whenever anyone goes on to multiplayer and mention that we are trying to get a ladder. Then anyone can help and not just one person getting names. They could post there wish for a ladder in a new thread. What do you think