I have a question about making maps
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Star Ranger4
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:59 am
Re: I have a question about making maps
Really? how so?
Re: I have a question about making maps
I am just guessing that you are asking about scenario conditions.Really? how so?
In the mapfolder there is a file called:
RTT_Scenario_MAPNAME.XML
At the bottom of the file there is a section called "Victory Conditions" You can edit it with a text and/or XML editor.
There is a Wiki about all this.
http://www.hookedgamers.com/gamewiki/Si ... o_Info_XML
Jancsika
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Star Ranger4
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:59 am
Re: I have a question about making maps
More like, how do you set up those victory conditions when your using random industry placements since you dont really know what goods will be where?
Re: I have a question about making maps
Remember that victory conditions can be other than buying out your opponent.
You could connect cities, ship certain amount of goods from one place to the other, make speed record between two cities, grow cities, etc.
OK here is an example. It is from a random map I am making.
Even though there could be several randomly placed Banks in the game,I have to build a bank in St Louis and ship 1000 Carloads of gold to the bank to claim victory.
Jancsika
You could connect cities, ship certain amount of goods from one place to the other, make speed record between two cities, grow cities, etc.
OK here is an example. It is from a random map I am making.
Even though there could be several randomly placed Banks in the game,I have to build a bank in St Louis and ship 1000 Carloads of gold to the bank to claim victory.
I hope this helps.<Condition>
<szType>OwnStuff</szType>
<bRequired>1</bRequired>
<OwnList>
<OwnListItem>
<szObjectType>Industry</szObjectType>
<szObjectName>Bank</szObjectName>
<szCityLocation>TAG_CITY_NAME_ST_LOUIS</szCityLocation>
</OwnListItem>
</OwnList>
<szDescription>Buy Bank in St Louis</szDescription>
<szNewspaperTitleSuccess>Financial Times</szNewspaperTitleSuccess>
<szNewspaperHeadlineSuccess>Baron Buys Bank</szNewspaperHeadlineSuccess>
<szNewspaperTextSuccess>Magnificent riches came to St Louis</szNewspaperTextSuccess>
<szNewspaperBitmapSuccess>event_buildstuff.dds</szNewspaperBitmapSuccess>
</Condition>
<Condition>
<szType>ShipGoods</szType>
<bRequired>1</bRequired>
<GoodsList>
<GoodsListItem>
<szGood>Gold</szGood>
<iCarloads>1000</iCarloads>
<szCityFrom>TAG_CITY_NAME_ANY_CITY</szCityFrom>
<szCityTo>TAG_CITY_NAME_ST_LOUIS</szCityTo>
</GoodsListItem>
</GoodsList>
<szDescription>Ship 1000 carloads of Gold to the Bank In St Louis</szDescription>
<szNewspaperTitleSuccess>Wall Street Journal</szNewspaperTitleSuccess>
<szNewspaperHeadlineSuccess>New home for gold</szNewspaperHeadlineSuccess>
<szNewspaperTextSuccess>The gold is pouring into the new bank in St Louis</szNewspaperTextSuccess>
<szNewspaperBitmapSuccess>event_transportgoods.dds</szNewspaperBitmapSuccess>
</Condition>
</VictoryConditions>
Jancsika
Re: I have a question about making maps
I was able to run the 30x30-sized map. However it starts to become unstable as you add more landscaping, towns, goods etc. I know the game tracks and logs every x, y, z location of everything going on as well as logging other information. So the game will have limits. After the 20x20 sized map I made, I saw the need to reduce the overall size some...mainly because many people cannot run them unless they have a monster game machine. I can run super-sized maps just fine in this game...all the games I mod, I always max-out what each game is capable of. So if you guys make some extra large maps, I for sure will try them out. Good luck.
Like snoopy had said, be careful with the starting map size...start with 15 or smaller...then after saving the mess and the game generates the maps set of basic xml list files, go back and change that 15 to 20x20 or whatever size in the maps scenario.xml list and resize/switch-out the maps tga image, to the larger size at that time as well. Add items one at a time. Then go in game and test. This way if there is a crash, you can find what is wrong easier.
EDIT// For random scenario events and goals, try looking at the games default game maps. Those are set for random placement for both in-city and out of city industries. I don't like random execpt for small maps...it just doesn't workout for larger ones the way I like for me.
Like snoopy had said, be careful with the starting map size...start with 15 or smaller...then after saving the mess and the game generates the maps set of basic xml list files, go back and change that 15 to 20x20 or whatever size in the maps scenario.xml list and resize/switch-out the maps tga image, to the larger size at that time as well. Add items one at a time. Then go in game and test. This way if there is a crash, you can find what is wrong easier.
EDIT// For random scenario events and goals, try looking at the games default game maps. Those are set for random placement for both in-city and out of city industries. I don't like random execpt for small maps...it just doesn't workout for larger ones the way I like for me.
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Star Ranger4
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:59 am
Re: I have a question about making maps
Ok, thought maybe you had learned something that I didnt know... I do recall once upon a time that I was wishing there was a variable like "your start location", but its either Any City or Specific city, eh?
Re: I have a question about making maps
Well there is two ways to do a "random" map. You can place the in-city industries then let the game place the out of city industries...or just let the game place both the in and out of city industries.
There is a set group of scenario goals that may be used for the game, you will need to mix-match them as you can/as they apply, for your scenario goals.
One goal that might work is to tell the player they need to deliver so many cars of goods to a given city. If that city doesn't have the in-city industry, they would have to build it in the town, than startup the industry to start the car count.
There are many scenario goals that can be used in this game. The only trouble is...if you use a random map like the default game maps had, you will be restricted to using only a couple of them as the others won't apply to a random map. If you look at the ones the game used on those maps...there is only two or three goals used per map. My Florida Gold project had used a huge long list of them. Random maps are for fast play I feel as well.
If you have any ideas you wish to use, discribe them and I will see if there is a goal that could be used.
There is a set group of scenario goals that may be used for the game, you will need to mix-match them as you can/as they apply, for your scenario goals.
One goal that might work is to tell the player they need to deliver so many cars of goods to a given city. If that city doesn't have the in-city industry, they would have to build it in the town, than startup the industry to start the car count.
There are many scenario goals that can be used in this game. The only trouble is...if you use a random map like the default game maps had, you will be restricted to using only a couple of them as the others won't apply to a random map. If you look at the ones the game used on those maps...there is only two or three goals used per map. My Florida Gold project had used a huge long list of them. Random maps are for fast play I feel as well.
If you have any ideas you wish to use, discribe them and I will see if there is a goal that could be used.
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Star Ranger4
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:59 am
Re: I have a question about making maps
Thats the problem... I'm having trouble deciding what to do. I originally wanted a decent random component, to make the map interesting to play both as a single player vs AI and as a multiplayer map, only I'm drawing a blank on just what victory conditions would work well for both.
So, in the meantime, I've started working up the goods chain, and decided that I'd show it for commentary/suggestions/error checking:
about the one thing that I am thinking about at this point is fixing the out of city locations like oil, the starport(s), and randomizing the in city stuff...
So, in the meantime, I've started working up the goods chain, and decided that I'd show it for commentary/suggestions/error checking:
Code: Select all
Goods chain
-----------
Source Good Product 1 Product 2
Refinery Oil Medicines Plastics Manufactured Gooods
Fishery Imigrants Fish
Farm Nitrates Grain Cattle
StarPort All Immigrants
Oil Well Imigrants Oil
Woodworks Wood Paper Manufactured Goods
Lumber Mill Imigrants Wood
Mine Imigrants Ore Gravel Coal
Stockyard Cattle Food
Concrete Plant Gravel Concrete
Foundry Ore Coal Steel Manufactured Goods
Hospital Medicines Passengers/Mail?
Cannery Fish Food
Grain Mill Grain Food
Newspaper Paper mail
Powerplant Oil coal
City Passengers/Mail
Metropolis Passengers/Mail
City Growth?
------------
Viliage Imigrants, Wood, Manufactured goods
Town Imigrants, Concrete, Manufactured goods
City Passengers, Mail, Steel, Manufactured goods, Food, Concrete
Metropolis Passengers, Mail, Manufactured goods, plastics, Food, Concrete
Annexes
Oil
Farm
Lumber Mill
Quarry
Starport
Fishery
In city
Refinery
Woodwork
Concrete Plant
Foundry
Stockyard
Grain Mill
Cannery
End users
Starport
Hospital
Newspaper
PowerPlantRe: I have a question about making maps
Are you using the Refinery for Oil, Medicines, Plastics and Manufactured Goods? Use Nitrates for the Medicine from the farms. It looks like the Refinery is using "oil" for the output of three goods. That might be tricky...one good in and one produced good out. I have "split" items at in-city factories...but I put two goods in the factory, the second boosts production, or makes a second good. If you tell the Refinery to make plastics and manufactured goods...the game will only use the goods for the first on the factories list...hence using the oil for plastics and hardly none will get to manufactured goods. You may need to make manufactured goods in a separate factory setup.
As to scenario goals, remember three quarters of the goals set by the game, require items to already be placed in and out of towns, or counting cars of goods etc. The ones that can be used for random maps are the ones that were used in the games random maps. In a multiplayer map, if I say deliver X amounts of cars of a good to town A, that goes for "all" players on the map. You could start to deliver the cars only for your opponent to deliver the last car and get the condition completed before you do. I see multiplayer maps as bare in scenario conditions for the most part. The idea behind those maps are all about watching and taking over the opponent and grabbing goods...single player maps I load down with scenario objectives because there is only one player.
Also...isn't that allot of goods and industries for a multiplayer map? Most of the multiplayer maps have only a few goods and industries, as each player tries to grab goods from the other player's side and so forth. You would need a good sized map to fit it all on the map, or the goods and industries will be side by side throughout the landscape. I like to have some "windshield time" (open landscape areas with trees etc.)while riding the trains to and from the raw goods locations back to town.
The Starport, Immigrants, Concrete Plant, Gravel and Concrete are going to be "new" industries and goods for the game. They will require a "global entry" be made from your maps files to run them. My style of mod making for this game, allow you to place the global files needed for the game right inside your maps folder with the rest of the xml lists. So there is no biggie there, except that the global entries be made correct...which is easy stuff really. If you read through the global files I have on one of my maps, you will see how new items are introduced to the game. My style of map making is called Clean Install Compatible or CIC for short. It allows the map maker to place global files inside the single map folder, all new Assets are placed in an Assets folder and then left inside the map folder with all other xml lists.
As to the amount of cities on a map, on one map I have eighteen levels. You have to make them in the city list...starting with size zero. Look at Mud Skippers or any of the others I have made and you will see what I mean. The extra levels extend the time it takes for a city to get to full size or if you have alot of goods to produce, you can intorduce one or two new goods to the city "want list" and spread them out as time goes on. To use the scenario objective called szType>GrowCity</szType> it only triggers on level 3 or the default <szTargetSize>Metropolis</szTargetSize> size...even if you place the name Metropolis on level 18, it will trigger on level 3 only, As level 3 is called Rual Outcropping and level 18 is named Metropolis...the scenario goal still triggers on level 3 no matter what name level3 is named in the city list, but the scenario goal must have the default name of Metropolis. I used this scenario goal with good results on the Mud Skippers map if you are interested you can read through and find that setting. So that scenario goal is kind of confusing, but if setup correct it works fine.
...hope all this helps some...let me know if you get stuck anywhere.
As to scenario goals, remember three quarters of the goals set by the game, require items to already be placed in and out of towns, or counting cars of goods etc. The ones that can be used for random maps are the ones that were used in the games random maps. In a multiplayer map, if I say deliver X amounts of cars of a good to town A, that goes for "all" players on the map. You could start to deliver the cars only for your opponent to deliver the last car and get the condition completed before you do. I see multiplayer maps as bare in scenario conditions for the most part. The idea behind those maps are all about watching and taking over the opponent and grabbing goods...single player maps I load down with scenario objectives because there is only one player.
Also...isn't that allot of goods and industries for a multiplayer map? Most of the multiplayer maps have only a few goods and industries, as each player tries to grab goods from the other player's side and so forth. You would need a good sized map to fit it all on the map, or the goods and industries will be side by side throughout the landscape. I like to have some "windshield time" (open landscape areas with trees etc.)while riding the trains to and from the raw goods locations back to town.
The Starport, Immigrants, Concrete Plant, Gravel and Concrete are going to be "new" industries and goods for the game. They will require a "global entry" be made from your maps files to run them. My style of mod making for this game, allow you to place the global files needed for the game right inside your maps folder with the rest of the xml lists. So there is no biggie there, except that the global entries be made correct...which is easy stuff really. If you read through the global files I have on one of my maps, you will see how new items are introduced to the game. My style of map making is called Clean Install Compatible or CIC for short. It allows the map maker to place global files inside the single map folder, all new Assets are placed in an Assets folder and then left inside the map folder with all other xml lists.
As to the amount of cities on a map, on one map I have eighteen levels. You have to make them in the city list...starting with size zero. Look at Mud Skippers or any of the others I have made and you will see what I mean. The extra levels extend the time it takes for a city to get to full size or if you have alot of goods to produce, you can intorduce one or two new goods to the city "want list" and spread them out as time goes on. To use the scenario objective called szType>GrowCity</szType> it only triggers on level 3 or the default <szTargetSize>Metropolis</szTargetSize> size...even if you place the name Metropolis on level 18, it will trigger on level 3 only, As level 3 is called Rual Outcropping and level 18 is named Metropolis...the scenario goal still triggers on level 3 no matter what name level3 is named in the city list, but the scenario goal must have the default name of Metropolis. I used this scenario goal with good results on the Mud Skippers map if you are interested you can read through and find that setting. So that scenario goal is kind of confusing, but if setup correct it works fine.
...hope all this helps some...let me know if you get stuck anywhere.
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Star Ranger4
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:59 am
Re: I have a question about making maps
ok... Yeah, I sort of see your point, I was trying to create more than one path to most 'money' goods.
Is this any better?
Is this any better?
Code: Select all
Good Source (Industry/Annex) Train Car
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Concrete Cement Plant Cement car
Coal Mine Coal Car
Fish Fishery Fish Car
Food Cannery Food Car
Food Stockyard Food Car
Food Mill Food Car
Grain Farm Grain Car
Gravel Mine Ore Car
Immigrants StarPort Passenger Car
Iron Ore Mine Iron Ore Car
Livestock Farm Livestock Car
Mail ------ Mail Car
Manufactured Goods WoodWorks Manufactured Goods Car
Manufactured Goods Foundry Manufactured Goods Car
Medicines Refinery Pharmecuticals car
Nitrates Chemical Plant Nitrates Car
Passengers ----- Passenger car
Paper WoodWorks Paper Car
Plastics Chemical Plant Textiles Car
Oil Oil Well Oil Car
Steel Foundry Steel Car
Wood Lumber Mill Wood Car
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Product Needed Good/Product Train Car Required Industry
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concrete Gravel Cement Car Cement Plant
Coal Immigrants/None Ore Car Mine
Fish Immigrants/None Fish Car Fishery
Food Fish Food Car Cannery
Food Livestock Food Car Stockyard
Food Grain Food Car Food Plant
Gravel Immigrants/None Ore Car Mine
Immigrants Any/None Passenger Car Starport
Iron Ore Immigrants/None Ore Car Mine
Manufactured Goods Iron Ore Manufactured Goods Car Iron Mill(Foundry)
Manufactured Goods Wood Manufactured Goods Car WoodWorks
Medicine Nitrates Medicine Car Chemical Plant
Nitrates Fish Nitrates Car Cannery
Paper Wood Paper Car Woodworks
Plastic Oil Textile Car Chemical Plant
Oil Immigrants/None Oil Car Oil Well
Steel Iron Ore Steel Car Iron Mill(Foundry)
Wood Immigrants/None Wood Car Lumber Mill
___________________________________________
For Cash Only Product Needed
-------------------------------------------
Hospital Medicine
Newspaper Paper
Power Plant Oil
Power Plant Coal
Starport Any but Immigrants
___________________________________________________________________
Annex: Good Car
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Port Immigrant Passenger
Mine Coal Ore Car
Gravel Ore Car
Ore Ore Car
Lumber Mill Wood Wood Car
Oil Well Oil Oil Car
Farm Grain Grain Car
Livestock Cattle Car
Fishery Fish Fish Car
___________________________________________________________________
In city Industry
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Cannery Food Food Car
Nitrates Nitrates Car
Cement Plant Concrete cement car
Chemical Plant Medicines Pharmacutical car
Plastics Textile car
Food Plant Food Food Car
Foundry/Iron Mill Manufactured Goods Man Goods Car
Steel Steel car
Stockyard Food Food Car
WoodWOrks Manufactured Goods Man Goods Car
Paper Paper carRe: I have a question about making maps
That looks fine.
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Star Ranger4
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:59 am
Re: I have a question about making maps
One last question springs to mind before I go digging back into this. How did you set up your Input outputs the one time you tried to get two outputs from one input? Was it two separate entries or one entry with two outputs, or did you try it both ways and neither one worked?
Re: I have a question about making maps
You can not get two outputs from one input.One last question springs to mind before I go digging back into this. How did you set up your Input outputs the one time you tried to get two outputs from one input? Was it two separate entries or one entry with two outputs, or did you try it both ways and neither one worked?
There is a Wiki about all this. With precise instructions. I suggest that you check it. It will answer most of your questions.
Generally there is a one output-to-one input rule in the game. The exception is when the input is "None".
For example you can produce Livestock from None and Livestock from Grain in the same Industry.
Jancsika
Re: I have a question about making maps
I'm Afraid to say you CAN Get two Outputs from 1 Input. I have done it and it works fine and doesn't cause any problems in the game, It just takes a bit longer for it to produce the Output but it does work..Jancsika wrote:You can not get two outputs from one input.One last question springs to mind before I go digging back into this. How did you set up your Input outputs the one time you tried to get two outputs from one input? Was it two separate entries or one entry with two outputs, or did you try it both ways and neither one worked?
There is a Wiki about all this. With precise instructions. I suggest that you check it. It will answer most of your questions.
Generally there is a one output-to-one input rule in the game. The exception is when the input is "None".
For example you can produce Livestock from None and Livestock from Grain in the same Industry.
Jancsika
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Re: I have a question about making maps
Sorry about the confusion, but I am confused. I have to take my own medicine and restudy the whole subject.I'm Afraid to say you CAN Get two Outputs from 1 Input. I have done it and it works fine and doesn't cause any problems in the game, It just takes a bit longer for it to produce the Output but it does work..
Here are some links that are discussing the same subject:
http://www.hookedgamers.com/forums/view ... =45&t=2432
http://www.hookedgamers.com/forums/view ... =45&t=2137
http://www.hookedgamers.com/forums/view ... =45&t=1322
Jancsika