A pile of requests and questions!

[RedKnight]

Hi folks,

Some of you may have seen me contributing game analysis to the Strategy forum and the wiki. I would like to do more research, especially on train speeds vs. delivery bonus, and how industries work (how many goods needed to grow, etc.).

It would help to have a custom map plus some questions answered. This seems like the best place. If no one minds, please take a shot at anything you can.

1) It would make things a lot easier for me if I had a mod which:

1. a) Has all trains, or at least a wider selection than any one SMR scenario. (Train Table mode with all trains doesn't work for me because TT mode does not have economics.) I'd especially want "interesting" trains like the Croc, GP-S and TGV.
   b) All trains available already
   c) Has a ton of money, so I can build at will
   d) Is a pretty big and easy map, like the near-flat Hill Valley Rush. If somebody just wants to make a version of it, that's fine.
   e) Has the Sheep Farm, and any other particularly unusual industries. (That's the only one the stands out to me.)
   f) Otherwise, a mix of big and small towns, and various industries.
   g) Will last a very long time, if possible (1000 years?)

2) I see intriguing things in the XML code, but can't seem to find an overall guide to what all the tags are for. Not just map mods, but all the XML. For example:

1. a) Are there "debug" type options that will show me more info? Especially interested in seeing the current timescale Tick as well as any current train Distance/Speed (for average speed), current Record, etc. info in the main display, and/or additional information on how many goods an industry has received, made or had picked up. Any info that gives more of a handle on trains and economy!
   b) In the XML, I believe industries have an input and ouput tag. Is there any easy way to see how this data looks in general? (Across various scenarios... does a given industry always use the same I/O numbers, in "standard" play?) Are there any other "functional" industry numbers in the XML?
   c) What does the Speed0 Trains XML tag mean? How about Power; how does that relate to engine function? Do fSpeedStartWait and fSpeedCrossFade relate to (sound) effects, or engine function?
   d) Is there a Console / Cheat / Tilde mode that might let me get more info, or change more settings? If so, if there documentation somewhere?

3) Is there a free or cheap XML tool out there? If it can work with MS Office e.g. to suck data into Access, that'd be great.

Ok, that's enough damage for a start, smile. If anybody can help on any of these, that's great!

RK

[snoopy55]

The 3rd one is the only one that can get thru my head right now.....XML Notepad 2007 might be what you're looking for. It's free

[zzbusch]

I've been using MS Frontpage as an editor. It came with my version of Office. I assume any HTML editor will also work.
I also use XML Notepad and Peter's XML Editor. I have Stylus Studio XML Enterprise also.

You probably can make the kind of map you're looking for by using the ingame editor, the master XML file available some where here, and looking at some of the XML from the custom maps produced and posted here. That's what I do.

[RedKnight]

Thanks folks, these will help... I'm poking around more, and see more about the game's mechanics in the XML...

FrontPage sounds good, if it'll make it easier to analyze stuff in Office. But I checked MS.com which says FrontPage is being discontinued. Looks like the replacement is "Expression Web for the professional Web designer", which lists for $300. Hmm, I wouldn't think I need all that, just to look at XML in a nice way, and export it.

...

Arg, I just spent HOURS on download.com poring over apps that might export xml to mdb, xls, or dbf. Many don't say they'll do exactly what I need, e.g. many say they'll export to XML, instead of vice versa. Some are trials for very expensive apps ($100+) and then there are ones with odd trial conditions, like a 100-record limit. Finally I tried four that clearly indicated they should do it - but not a single one actually could. That, or they've hidden the capability real well.

I really hate installing anything more than I need to. All I want is to dump XML "table view" data into a data set! Is that so hard? Arg.

Anyway. Vent off - RK

[RedKnight]

Ok, I found a worthy app, XMLFox Advance (XFA), on Download.com. It turns an XML into a fully relational MS Access mdb, and only costs $40 including the "taxes" included by the multivendor site.

Wow, what a trip that was. I ultimately tried six different programs (not wanting to "try" anything), half of whose Download.com's entries simply could not do what they said they could (I would never say they lied), the other of which were complex and maybe could do it but I'm an amateur, just give me two buttons. Even XFA gave trouble. I am a little surprised... it seems like a simple concept, to turn an XML into a relational file. Past a couple of problems though, with very responsive programmer support, XFA did the trick.

Anyway. If anyone would care to take a hand at the mod I mentioned in my first post, I sure would appreciate it. If I could slightly elaborate... I wasn't really asking how to do it. I was saying, I like to study and elucidate how the game works. If one of you modders could make a mod to help me do that, I would be appreciative.

I will be pouring out data dumped from the XMLs onto the wiki in days to come, much as Disco Stu did for engines.

Thanks if anyone has any further insights on my (too) many questions,

RK

[snoopy55]

OK, 45 minutes of exosting work and here is your # 1 request, all but the Fishery. Enjoy

I must warn you and anyone else who loads this up, if you want to play any other Scenario, move this one to an unused location as the money part will show up in all Scenarios!

[RedKnight]

Very cool, snoopy!

Do I just follow the lead of the Santa download, and put it all in e.g.

MG\SMR\CustomAssets\XML\_Scenarios_\Hill Valley Mess ?

Not sure what you mean by an unused scenario... you mean hide it from SMR, eh? Easy enough.

Do you have any burning questions that I can investigate?

[snoopy55]

I'm sorry Redknight, yes, you do just place it with all the other downloads. I just figured since you were asking for a map that you would know where to put it. This really wasn't meant for gaming, just research.

Yes, you do have to hide it from SMR. My SMR is on drive N, so anywhere but drive N or in My Games on drive C. As I don't know how your drives are set up, just keep it away from SMRs access when you're not using it or SMR will grab the money set. On the Dogbone map there is that Top Mutt for winning. I mistakenly left that in there after Jimmylh made corrections and it showed up in every map

As to questions, what the heck controls the speed of the trains? My bro and I wanted the TVG to go 300, but even tho I got the selection screen to show 300, it still only went 199

Otherwise I'm just doing about the same as you, research. I check out maps for operation and look into peoples questions. I want to get into my Wisconsin map and do the landscaping, but I have to find alot of uninterupted time.

[RedKnight]

Cool, your file seems to be working fine... How'd you set the order for the trains in this mod? They're all over the place, lol. But it's great... thanks!!

I don't know what you mean by the selection screen showing 300 for the TGV, but have you taken a look at the RRT_Trains.XML? Each engine has a "MaxSpeed" and also a mysterious "Speed0" field, as well as a Power field. For the TGV, both Speeds are set to 200... why not try setting them both to 300? I'd be interested to know. Also tweak the Power so it can get there faster. Those TGVs really don't have great power. Disco Stu put a version of Trains.XML on the wiki.

Let me know what happens if you tweak the engine settings... it would help my research, too. One thing at a time, though... right now I'm figuring how resources and industry grow, which I hope will lead into things like, is it better to direct e.g. two grains to two different bakeries, or focus them on one?

[snoopy55]

The numbers listed on Disco Stus Wiki are what is shown in the RRT_Trains file, but the program takes them and multiplies them times 10. So with the TGV at 20, the top speed is 200.
I just did a test on the Planet, which, by the way, Disco Stu missed on his list, and even putting it at 30, which should give it a speed of 300 by those calcs, only went 199. This means that somewhere in the game the top speed is set firmly at 199.

If someone wants to play with speed experiments this would be a good map. Set a straight rail from Montgomery to Edwardsport and you can do top speeds using different numbers of passenger and mail cars. Just set up the track and save it. That way you don't loose the car count at Montgomery.

As to the Engines all over the place, That is just the way it came out. It may have to do with the .fpk files or the .exe files. That's not the order they are in the RRT_Trains file.

[RedKnight]

Cool. You played with Speed0, too? Did you see any effect from it, if you did?

If there is a hard-wired limit, it is probably 200, not 199. Most trains seem to never quite touch their max speed, unless perhaps going downhill. I just did a cheesy quick scan across the entire RR install for: >20< but it only showed those TGV stats, for anything related to train speed. Oh well.

I just also added a spreadsheet of engine info to the wiki Engine page, but it doesn't add much more. I can see where Disco might've run into trouble; the relational keys in the XML files were a little tricky, at least with my tool.

I'm sure I'll be playing with speeds and distances. The express bonus is still a big question to me; the other results I posted on the Strategy forum seem pretty preliminary to me now.

[Warll]

If I remember right the track has a max speed of 200. Although I am not to sure. If some one will check you can click an a track it should tell you.

[Dr Frag]

Hahah, oh crap, I hadn't even thought about that. I was going to do some testing but you may be right. I've been away from railroading too long it appears. Funny that no one has found a setting for that somewhere. Hope it's not hard coded, but it might be if the game engine gets squirrely when trains go too fast.

[dwax]

This is great snoopy55! I can see all the trains, this is the first time I seen some of them. I have the Ice loco there but can't select it, any idea why??

here is a picture, it wont let me select it. and I have download the train files for it.

[dwax]

Another question Is there a way we can get all trains to show up on some of the other maps that have been posted on the forum?

Like ChicagoToTheRockies would be great!