What Are Globals

[Lowell]

Yes, Rodea is correct, that was the only trouble with that 2K games map. They really dropped the ball on that one. They must not have beta tested it before they placed it out for the planet to download.
It can be fixed though; I redid the holiday idea on a couple maps. It worked out okay.
What is even more confusing is that there are "three" types of that map on the forum. The first version which was broken from the start... ...then there is a "global" version from SMRI etc. Then there is a Sam version if I am not mistaken.

What they did on the original map was, copy the games global lists, added them to the game mod. Then when you load that map into your game, it "replaces" your games global industry, goods, and they forgot, or made errors on the train’s full global listing for that holiday engine.

See the Holiday engine is something that was added after the game was re-released. So none of the new items it offered were in the game, hence the need for "global" new entries to be made for the game to even see them. As Rodea has shown, by their mistake of not making the correct global entry for that engine, it shows-up in the game as a red blob.

I made a couple holiday maps. They use many of the games industries plus a few added, along with that holiday engine. It shows-up properly in those maps.

For that map, I would suggest trying the sam version if there is one. If not it wouldn’t take Rodea or myself a sec to re-build that one and post a newer self-contained map version for drop and play.

[Rodea2007]

For that map, I would suggest trying the sam version if there is one. If not it wouldn’t take Rodea or myself a sec to re-build that one and post a newer self-contained map version for drop and play.

That is already in my mind, I will make Holiday Map with an Installer and add new Train AC4400 Canadian Pacific 8636 Holiday Trains from MSTS may be add Acela too....

[RockyNarrowGauge]

Does this mean that all noobies should not edit maps?

Lowell, you must have failed to play the original Santa Holiday map. Those errors were in my Santa SAM2 version of it, not the original. The original version only failed when the SMRI style of maps were loaded and that was simply because it had it's own global files. Please be a bit more sure of statements you make. What I am posting is what I call a SAM2. It contains full listings in the XML files and accesses only the original XML files that have no modifications.

Sorry about my errors, I was interrupted by my children needing assistance with a game.

Try this.

[Jancsika]

Where are these CIC maps I have been looking but cant find any. I want to find out what is good to use and whats not good.

Looking for CIC maps??
Here is nice one. And it is complete!!

http://eric.bkbobby.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=233
Jancsika

PS.....and it was created by Rodea

[Jancsika]

Does this mean that all noobies should not edit maps?

Not at all!!
This is a public forum, and you can use everything that's posted. But you have to respect the original creators, and give them proper credit!!!
Jancsika

[Lowell]

Does this mean that all noobies should not edit maps?

Lowell, you must have failed to play the original Santa Holiday map. Those errors were in my Santa SAM2 version of it, not the original. The original version only failed when the SMRI style of maps were loaded and that was simply because it had it's own global files. Please be a bit more sure of statements you make. What I am posting is what I call a SAM2. It contains full listings in the XML files and accesses only the original XML files that have no modifications.

Sorry about my errors, I was interrupted by my children needing assistance with a game.

Try this.

It is the first sam I have. The file structure looks fine. The industries are set for auto placement. I haven't tried placing the Location information in with the global listing yet. It seems that it should work. If so that means all I would need are just a complete set of globals and nix the scenario lists as they would be redundant.
It looks fine, I like the way the assets are in a folder inside the one file folder for the map.
I could try and only use a master set of lists and see what happens. My maps don't have auto placement. Inside the editor when you place an out-of-city industry it makes the Location information on the rrt_scenario_industry.xml list by default. So maybe that might be the only file extra needed, not sure yet. Will have to do a couple crash and burn tests and see what happens. I would have to play Florida Gold a couple times to make sure the game doesn't hick-up and it saves properly and everything as I go.

Is that what you were trying to tell me? Or is there something wrong with that map? It seems fine to me at first, started right up and from what I read through I see nothing right off. I am not sure where Rodea got the red blob from the holiday engine is properly listed as a 4-8-4 242 A1 so that is correct. It runs fine from what I can tell from just the startup.

What do you mean noobie? I was only trying to explain about using a whole listing on a global set of lists if you add new items. If the map is to use the goods etc from the games default stuff...only two liners are needed in a scenario list. New stuff, whole global listing. If you are going to edit the globals you should know what I mean so far. But as to that map, it looks fine. I like the way it was made.

Maybe I didn't explain myself very well before...sorry.

[Rodea2007]

I am not sure where Rodea got the red blob from the holiday engine is properly listed as a 4-8-4 242 A1 so that is correct. It runs fine from what I can tell from just the startup.

You don't believe me Lowell... that is the true. I was the first person to download the RockyNarrowGauge Santa SAM2 , so if you have Santa SAM2 with Supporting files for 4-8-4 242 A1 that means you have download a file that has been corrected or second upload from RockyNarrowGauge Santa SAM2. There is no need for me to lie, because I only want to help people here to find out where the error and learn is a mistake to do better.....

I just download the second uploaded from RockyNarrowGauge Santa SAM2, with have 14.5 MB size and the First only have 12.7 MB size. did you not see the difference between the files that the first and second, the second file more large because RockyNarrowGauge has added supporting files for 4-8-4 242 A1, so I recommend to you DON'T MAKE A COMMENT BEFORE YOU KNOW THE PROBLEM OR LEARN the PROBLEM FIRST BEFORE YOU MAKE A COMMENT.............. uh.....

Notes for RockyNarrowGauge:
Cookies Factory and Toys Factory still have no animation such as Smoke stack and Flag animation, so you can use fromagerie.kfm to replace cookiefactory.kfm and furnitureplant.kfm to replace toyfactory.kfm because they are the same you only need replace fromagerie_diff.dds with cookiefactory_diff.dds for Cookies Factory and furnitureplant_diff.dds with toyfactory_diff.dds for Toys Factory. Fromagerie.kfm and furnitureplant.kfm both have 9 KF files for animation.

[Lowell]

Roeda, I did not see his first post he made with the attached map because someone else had posted and it had bumped to a new page. I did not see the first attached map post so I never looked at it. I thought he was making a comment or question only about the santa holiday maps and the many versions. So I was way off track from the question. Sorry. Then he attached a second map, that I now see has the same name as the first. I was only making a comment that I don't know which files you had as there were a couple version of that santa map where they had messed up that engines listing. You must have seen his post and gotten the first set of files that I did not see. My mistake.

Sorry for me pulling a senior moment and not seeing the other post with the attached map. However, the second set of files seems fine at first glance. I had not played it through, only turned it up to see if it would start. I looked at that engine first, changing its start date to see what the first found error was. It seems they have fixed it on this new load. No biggie, it happens to everyone.

Now, as to "moving" location information from a scenario file to the global file with the industry info, that has yet to be tested. By myself anyway, as this is the first I have seen built with totally global files inside. One thing I did see right off is, the map pops-up in the games map selection screen as the “last map” in the pick screen, scrolling from left to right as we do on this side of the planet. The maps that are made with the set of scenario files added like mine plus the global files if needed, pop-up as the very first pick on the map selection screen. That is important because if an eight year old places my map files in usermaps, then opens up the game and sees a default game map as first, they might click on trying to play one of the games default maps and crash out the game. If my maps pop-up as the first thing you see when you enter the game, they might not forget that map is still in the game and either play it or remove it for another.

See if you go into the games editor and make a new blank scenario, the game will make a set of files for you to go by and fill in. By using only global files and nix the scenario files, you are circumventing the system files that were written at the start of the game. Now, on small maps it may have no effect. I will have to try this idea on Florida Gold's files and see if it holds water or not. Personally, I don't care if the scenario files are kept in or not, as the scenario files only have a couple lines of info on them anyway. So they are sooo tiny it isn't worth the extra time, and if the game crashes from that, then it would be a failure. But I will try it if that is what this is all about. The scenario files I have along with my global files, would not reduce the file enough to even measure. But I will give it a try. I am glad to see that someone has seen the beauty of this file structure. Easy to read through and fix game content without the hassle of converting fpks back and forth every time you want to adjust something in game content. Hey, I admit it. I am lazy and want the fast quick way. That is why I like the assets folder being inside the game map. That was from the Utah map and Karsten. Great idea. Plus, everything is inside one single folder for the map and all content it adds. Nice job. This is the very file structure I have been talking about.

I don’t see it as a big deal. It is made like my files; it has global files to introduce anything new that may have been added. It has a single folder inside that houses the new game content. It is the same style I have been speaking of all along. It just nixs the scenario lists, which in this case are not needed. The industries in and out of the city are on auto placement. Lets see if we can get the info that the game records by default on the scenario lists to work if moved to a global list. My first guess...the game will want the location information back on the scenario lists. That is the only thing listed on my scenario lists, all the other info for the industries game models are on the global list of course.

[Lowell]

Sorry guys, I didn't download that first file. For some reason I don't remember seeing the first attachment. I only saw the second one. Guess I was a tad confused there...
What I was referring to was, there are a couple versions out there. A couple of them have the red blobs for that engine that was what I meant. I thought the first question was about the different versions and which would be better to use etc.
My new glasses will be here sometime this week I hope.

[snoopy55]

Lowell, your explanation may have merrit, but because of your choice of names for file types, it is hard to decipher.

You have:

global xml list
global files
master files
rrt_scenario.xml files
scenario.xml list (corrected your spelling there....hey, we all make spelling mistakes)
master list
scenario list file
slave files
master entries
slave entries
xml lists
master set of lists
scenario list
"master global" list

So, what are the definitions of each of them?

Also, as I have edited and started close to 100 maps, they all have to be accessed by going to the left, the first time you load them. After that, they always come up first. The reason is found in the Settings.ini, a line that is: LastScenarioName = (name of map xml). It records the last map you played, and if that map no longer exists, it displays Southwest U.S.

Why the concern for editing a map you download to play?

Now what some may be saying is that the rrt_scenario.xml files are not needed and I could simply add a new rrt_goods.xml list and not use the rrt_florida_gold_goods.xml list. The only trouble there is when in the game editor and you place an item down on the map board...all the Location information the game will want to load on that snenario.xml list. So in reality both lists are needed. The master list holds the model information and details about the game model...the scenario list file houses the information of the location of said item on the game board.

If I understand this correctly, it has something to do with the initial positioning of out-of-town Industries. There are three ways, at least that I know of, to place Mod Industries.
The first, which I have used, is to decide what Mods you want to place and place the Industries that are in the editor where you want them, one type for each type of Mod. You then go out and change the name of each Industry to the Mod you wanted, adding the other required files of course. You continue the in and out until you place all of your Mods. When you are done with the Mods, you then place the original Industries.
The second, which I used until the number of mods became to much, was to edit the files used in the editor to include the Mods. It worked, until, as i said, the number of Mods became to much.
The third, which i use now, is to find two or three nearby towns and, using their XY coordinates, find a ruff pair of numbers to use for the location of several of them. I then start the map and make note of which I feel need to be adjusted and about how much, leave the map and make the adjustments. The best way is setting them for level 2. That way you get a view of what the largest size will cover and then adjust it accordingly, changing it to the size you want it to start at the beginning of the game. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, explain it to me. At least the above examples may give mappers a few ways to try to see if they like one of them.

And let's let the old "Folder/FPK" thing drop. It is a matter of each mapper to his own way. If a mapper wants to use a SAM style and put a folder in it instead of an FPK, I don't care. And I expect that if a mapper wants to use a CIC style with an FPK outside of it, you should leave it to them also. Like medicines, there are several diffenent types/brands that give the same results. It is up to the user, in this case the mapper, to choose which he wishes to use.

None of this is an attack on what you do, it is simply someone trying to understand what you are saying, and speaking for others who may not understand it either.

[Rodea2007]

There is is AC4400 CP8638 Santa Holiday

[Lowell]

So, what are the definitions of each of them?

Master files like rrt_goods.xml are the same as the global files I am speaking of. Slave files would be the rrt_scenario_goods.xml lists. My lingo for them sorry.

Also, as I have edited and started close to 100 maps, they all have to be accessed by going to the left, the first time you load them.

I know, but for some reason mine pop up as the first thing you see. I make new blank railroads folders and stick the map files in them so I test them as a new install, beta testers pcs have them pop-up first too. The settings.ini file I copy is blank and no scenario is listed as first. I guess I need to look at that again. No biggie if they have to scroll, I might be mistaken.

If I understand this correctly, it has something to do with the initial positioning of out-of-town Industries. There are three ways, at least that I know of, to place Mod Industries.

Yes all three ways are correct, whichever the mapper prefers. I sort-of like to see and edit the land area I am placing the industries on for better track placement etc. So I go into the editor and hand place each item on the landscape. The second you place an industry down or add to a city, the game writes the location down on the rrt_scenario_industries.xml.

It has been asked before if I could only use a set of global files for my maps as you have done here. When I first started all the crash tests to get them to where they would run properly... ...I ended up with both, global (master) and scenario (slave) set of lists (xml.) So each industry had it's full listing for the models etc on the global list rrt_industries.xml. Then on the rrt_scenario_industry.xml it has only the industries title name, and then below that is the Location information. I figured I needed to keep the location info on that rrt_scenario_industry.xml list.

Like this...

<RRTIndustry>
<szName>KeyLime Pies</szName>
<Locations>
<Location>
<StartX>316</StartX>
<StartY>673</StartY>
<Rotation>-0.993896</Rotation>
<Size>0</Size>
<InCity>TAG_CITY_NAME_SUMMERLAND_KEY</InCity>
</Location>
</Locations>
</RRTIndustry>

It is up to the user, in this case the mapper, to choose which he wishes to use.

Oh yes, I agree. Please don't let me try and sell anyone on what I am doing. So far it has worked, I am sure refinements will be found. Personally, I didn't care to name them anything but self-contained maps. Like you said, there will be many combinations. Fpks are fine. They are made for the game. It is the large map sizes and all the edited content that made me think of ways to help the game read through everything and hopefully play more stable, which thank goodness it did respond and play stable for once. I just liked the way the Utah map had that assets folder. It can be named anything the mapper wishes, but I think it is a cool idea. Fpks are fine to use if anyone wishes.

None of this is an attack on what you do, it is simply someone trying to understand what you are saying, and speaking for others who may not understand it either.

I welcome debate on these type issues. I want the best format that works and runs stable. I must apologize for my manners on a couple occasions. I made a mountain out of a molehill a couple times.

So my file structure is like this...

RRT_Bridges.xml
RRT_Bridges_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Cities_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Clutter.xml
RRT_Clutter_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Decorations_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Difficulty.xml
RRT_Difficulty_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Depots_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Eras_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Events_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Goods.xml
RRT_Goods_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Industries.xml
RRT_Industries_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Names_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_TrainCars.xml
RRT_TrainCars_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Trains.xml
RRT_Trains_Florida_Gold_400x.xml

So you see for every global file/list there is a scenario file to follow if new items were added. In this case I am using the clutter file to add decorations to the map, as the decorations.xml file doesn't work after a game save.

On all of the scenario files, they only have the title name of whatever is listed. Then on the global list everything is laid out in full.

Now here is a trick...you can take any game map that uses the games default goods and such, place it in a new railroads folder just like you would any self-contained map...and they run great just as is. So any map that a person makes that uses the games default stuff would not need a set of global files at all. Except if they add a new train etc. All they would need is the scenario file xml lists, and even those would only have to have the titles of the industries etc used. So entries may look like this;
<Industries>
<RRTIndustry>
<szName>Paper Mill</szName>
</RRTIndustry>
Anyway I hope I explained everything from what I have said so far. There are two other "global/master" files, they are called Audio3DScripts.xml and AudioDefines.xml With those you can add new sound effects of all types, and new in-city music as well. Say if you had your favorite Christmas songs you would like to hear playing in the background as you move from city to city. Or add a new steam whistle sound. On the Florida Gold map, I added a RRT_Bridge.xml list and reduced the cost of building bridges. Or the holidays in Ohio maps where the rrt_bridge.xml file has been edited for 700ft wood trestles to be made. Wooden trestles, turn into metal bridges at more than 3 or 500ft. Seeing as Jowie10's Ohio Large map has deep rivers, I needed the taller trestles. "Wood trestles just looked better and I added snow to the trestle Diff files." So I forced them to be taller by using that global bridge list.

Thanks for the spelling correction; I need my new glasses pretty bad.

This should clear-up why I am using both the scenario and global lists on my maps.

Say, I made a holiday tender for that holiday train, you are welcome to use them if you wish. Rodea, those would be awesome added to that map. Good idea.

Thanks guys...sorry for the long post.

[Rodea2007]

So my file structure is like this...

RRT_Bridges.xml
RRT_Bridges_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Cities_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Clutter.xml
RRT_Clutter_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Decorations_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Difficulty.xml
RRT_Difficulty_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Depots_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Eras_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Events_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Goods.xml
RRT_Goods_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Industries.xml
RRT_Industries_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Names_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_TrainCars.xml
RRT_TrainCars_Florida_Gold_400x.xml
RRT_Trains.xml
RRT_Trains_Florida_Gold_400x.xml

For what???......all global xml files put in your UserMaps Folder....as I said before only RRT_Goods.xml needed as Global XML in your CustomAsset\XML folder if you want your map can laying with other map or in Usermaps\yourMap folder if you won't to your map can laying with other map not the others but if you have new items for the others you need to do Full Listing in form of xml that is only required to describes what supporting files ( NIF, KFM, KF, DDS, TGA ) required by the model.

[snoopy55]

Rodea, your idea for the RRT_Goods.xml to be in CustomAssets/XML is fine, except for one thing - you have to remember to remove all those file when you install a new map. For you it is simple, you are able to writh a program to remove those files. Most mappers do not know how to do this. You also require files from other maps of your in order to run some maps. This relying on one map to run another is what we are trying to avoid. In only having one folder or one folder and an FPK to delete after you play a map (there is no reason to "move" them as you have the original somewhere on your computer) it makes it simplier. Again, do it how you want, but many files in many places is the reason STEP Inc developed SAMs.

Lowell - I have a map called STSDSC_SAM2 in the process of being tested. So far, everything is working out. All of the XMLs are full listed and all Industries have set locations.

Question - In order for you to place all of your Industries while in the editor, you have to have full listings in the XMLs in the NewMapBase folder. Is this what you are doing? If you are, this means that either you have all of the mods used in all of your maps, or a seperate folder for each map you work on with all the Mods needed in it.

I guess the main difference betweem CICs and SAMs/SAM2s is that we at STEP Inc use a minimum of XMLs and files. To test a new MOD, we put the individual FPKs with the map, and if we decide not to use them, we remove them. If we do decide to use them, we open all of the FPKs into a single folder and then make that into a single FPK.

But, each to his own.

I'm still a bit confused as to what each name for files are, but .....

[Lowell]

Each mod is a beast of its own. I don't share any xml lists, they are made to order. I make full listings for any new industries etc first, then place them inside the editor. They don't even show up on the pull down menu if you don't have everything filled out first anyway.

In the Florida map on the global goods and industry list there is no coal. If you try and play a default map it will crash, as I turned coal off. I added more in its place.

New industries need a global entry. New trains need the same just as goods, train cars, events, difficulty money, bridge changes etc. All new game model files are kept inside the assets folder like you did on this santa map.

So basically I stick with the games scenario file structure, then add any global files I need to each mod.

Rodea placing the files outside the single file folder for the game is what I am trying to avoid. People messed their game up moving xml lists through their custom assets folders and such. Many players messed up their lists in custom assets and ended up reinstalling their game. The idea here is to construct a mapping system to where everything can be "self-contained" somewhat. No installer is needed as the whole mod is kept inside one single file folder and maybe an fpk or two. This way a player can drag and drop the map folder into the user maps folder then play the map. When it comes time to switch and play another, you only have the one file folder to switch out or delete.
So the idea was a simple one, but a tad complex to get the right combination for the game to accept. But due to player requests it looks like self-contained maps will be the wave of the future. It just isn't the goods file that is needed when you make new industries, trains, events and so on...all need global entries at map start or the map will fail. My files share no information from the game or any other maps, they are "self-contained" even the tenders that are not part of the game...models animations and all are added to the scenarios. All that new stuff needs a proper listing for the game. My maps are made as if someone just bought the game and everything is default, no new trains or tenders added, so I add them if needed. So that is why the files are built this way...you can't split out xml lists from that single folder. So far it works great. So in this case, the global files I make that are inside my map folders, stay inside the map folder and get put in Usermaps...not pulled out of the folder and moved to custom assets. I hope I discribed that correctly.

I still have yet to try moving the location info off the industry list and try using only globals on such maps. It may work, I would have to place everything down first, then move the location info afterwards.