Toran War Map

[Rodea2007]

Rodea2007 is now stating at times that the only way to go is to have the FPKs or material folders in CustomAssets and a RRT_Goods.xml in CustomAssets/XML. He is also requiring the loading of certain maps of his in order to run newer maps. This is going right back to the GLOBAL system. SAM maps have been written and working for over a year now. I do not understand what the problem is. Lowell's CICs have even more Global type XMLs in them, but this does not seem to be a problem with Rodea2007, at least not that he has mentioned.

I'm sorry, because should be this post is not in Loneboy thread.
Snoopy you have a way to make this game better, I and Lowell have too that ways, so let the peoples here to choice what the best for them, and why my new map required the others map to run I have some reasons for it.
1. I'm following the standard procedure which have been made for this game, because I believe this game was created or designed by people who are experts in the field. For example the MP Maps from default map only have a few XML files and using the XMLs from another Map.
2. I don't like to rename or make a new Sid Meier's Railroads! folder every I want to play a scenario map
3. Dealing with economic problems, to you know cost used for internet usage in my country is still very expensive, so I must find my way how the map can be enjoyed by the peoples with a cost that will occur, for example installer West Sumatera Map have size almost 30 MB and if I create a new map and and using materials such as in the WSM Map and I use SAM or Lowell style, so I must to upload file with the same size, but If I use my style I only just upload a small file and of course you can understand how cost savings that I get. see Bunit posted in other thread, his country have not yet High Speed Internet Connection so needs long time to downloads a bigger map and as I know in my country the longer time needed to use the internet then the larger the cost incurred for it.
As Lowell's CICs have even more Global type XMLs in them, I already told him by PM should not to put all global XMLs except RRT_Goods.xml, but as I said before there are yours way and it up to you, I just suggest what I think is better

[Lowell]

Lowell's CICs have even more Global type XMLs in them,

Wrong....and the big bell goes off...

I add only global files if anything New is added to a map.

Look inside your new Sam2 Santa map and tell me what every single file you have in there is of what type?

RRT_Bridges.xml
RRT_Cities.xml
RRT_Depots.xml
RRT_Events.xml
RRT_Goods.xml
RRT_Industries.xml
RRT_Names.xml
RRT_Scenario_Santa.xml
RRT_Trains.xml
RRT_TrainCars.xml

I see Only global files and all of your files are global. And you nixed the Fpks for an assets folder inside the map file. Nice job you made it just like a CIC map.

The global files added inside the maps files are only needed if you place something new into the game, then on whatever list it is to live on, you place a global entry..."along with" a scenario listing for the scenario. I have found that not using the scenario files can have saved game issues.

[vzbob]

Lowell's CICs have even more Global type XMLs in them,

Wrong....and the big bell goes off...

I add only global files if anything New is added to a map.

Look inside your new Sam2 Santa map and tell me what every single file you have in there is of what type?

RRT_Bridges.xml
RRT_Cities.xml
RRT_Depots.xml
RRT_Events.xml
RRT_Goods.xml
RRT_Industries.xml
RRT_Names.xml
RRT_Scenario_Santa.xml
RRT_Trains.xml
RRT_TrainCars.xml

I see Only global files and all of your files are global. And you nixed the Fpks for an assets folder inside the map file. Nice job you made it just like a CIC map.

The global files added inside the maps files are only needed if you place something new into the game, then on whatever list it is to live on, you place a global entry..."along with" a scenario listing for the scenario. I have found that not using the scenario files can have saved game issues.

SAM2 is nothing like a CIC, as CIC contain 2 of all XML files in it where they are not needed.
They are not Global as you call them as Global Uses every item in the game where as SAM2 only use what is used in the map including new item. So there is no need to have all the XMLs named for the Map or to use 2 lots of XML files.

If you look at the Santa files they only contain whats needed and not the full listings for the whole game so they are map specific and not global.

Your CIC has to read both lots of XML files which add to more resources being used and adding more files to the map to make the finished maps files larger to either upload or download.
SAM2 can use either FPK's or full files. That is up to the map maker as to what he wants to use.

Globals are the original Games XML files with Full listings.
SAM2 Are not Globals as they do not contain every item in the game Listed but only what the Map needs.

[Lowell]

SAM2 is nothing like a CIC, as CIC contain 2 of all XML files in it where they are not needed.

Yes, it is the same structure. A CIC map is simply a clean install compatible, self-contained map that has everything it needs to run in a single file folder. If you add new game models/items, they must be placed inside the map folder in a folder for the new assets uncompressed. That is the definition of a CIC map. That is what you guys just built, then changed the name.

What I do is build a set of scenario files, then if anything new is added to the game I add a global file for that. CIC maps do not have to look like mine. Any self-contained map can be a CIC map. The requirements as I just mentioned above are any new game content models be placed inside the single map folder for the game along with the map xml lists uncompressed with no fpks.

That is what a CIC map is. File structure inside the single file folder depends on what you are building. The scenario lists if there is a global list for it as well, only have the name of said item on the scenario lists, so there is no loading anything twice...it points to the master list for the full list. That list is loaded only once at the start of the game map and then is written on a Scenario.SMRailroadsSavedGame file. The game from then on reads that file to run the map during the remainder of the game. So seeing as the game will write the saved game file in scenario list form, I make mine with those same lists formmat, then expand if needed.

You seem to still be confused as to what a cic map is. Look at Karsten's maps, they are CIC. Even if they use the games default stuff only.

So I don't build Scenarios with only Global files...I build scenarios with scenario files, then add a global file where I need it. But that is "my" style format in a CIC file structure. Please don't confuse the two.

Any map that only uses the games default stuff only needs a set of scenario files, and on those only a short list of the names line need be placed and not any full listings of any kind. Those type maps are already drop and play and need no adjustments or conversions of any kind. I see maps that are using the games default stuff that were made into Sams...not needed they were fine the way they were. Redundancy and prone to error. But to each his/her own, if you are happy with your structure and your maps run and play fine plus they save a game and return without crashing...then what works works.

I am taking labels off my maps from now on they are simply self contained game maps. My maps run super solid, I have had to restructure a few lists from the old ones you may have seen, improving on the structure vastly.

To each their own.

SAM2 Are not Globals

Huh? you better think that one over before you say it again. Just because you remove a good or industry off of an RRT_Global.xml file doesn't mean you can change it's name. Any file that only reads as RRT_whatever.xml is a global file to this game.
What a Noob thing to say...

[Lowell]

Oh...the use of the scenario lists is important as the game when you place anything on a game map, writes the Location of said item down on the RRT_Scenario_whatever.xml lists.

What you guys are doing is moving what the game wants to write on a scenario list and moving it to a global list.

I see not one single map in the game that has moved that x,y and z information from a scenario list onto a global list. My concern is your maps may not save and return to game properly.

From what I have been told in the past is you guys are building your maps and not using the games map editor. You place them by random numbers. Use the editor and read what the game writes.

[vzbob]

SAM2 is nothing like a CIC, as CIC contain 2 of all XML files in it where they are not needed.

Yes, it is the same structure. A CIC map is simply a clean install compatible, self-contained map that has everything it needs to run in a single file folder. If you add new game models/items, they must be placed inside the map folder in a folder for the new assets uncompressed. That is the definition of a CIC map. That is what you guys just built, then changed the name.

What I do is build a set of scenario files, then if anything new is added to the game I add a global file for that. CIC maps do not have to look like mine. Any self-contained map can be a CIC map. The requirements as I just mentioned above are any new game content models be placed inside the single map folder for the game along with the map xml lists uncompressed with no fpks.

That is what a CIC map is. File structure inside the single file folder depends on what you are building. The scenario lists if there is a global list for it as well, only have the name of said item on the scenario lists, so there is no loading anything twice...it points to the master list for the full list. That list is loaded only once at the start of the game map and then is written on a Scenario.SMRailroadsSavedGame file. The game from then on reads that file to run the map during the remainder of the game. So seeing as the game will write the saved game file in scenario list form, I make mine with those same lists formmat, then expand if needed.

You seem to still be confused as to what a cic map is. Look at Karsten's maps, they are CIC. Even if they use the games default stuff only.

So I don't build Scenarios with only Global files...I build scenarios with scenario files, then add a global file where I need it. But that is "my" style format in a CIC file structure. Please don't confuse the two.

Any map that only uses the games default stuff only needs a set of scenario files, and on those only a short list of the names line need be placed and not any full listings of any kind. Those type maps are already drop and play and need no adjustments or conversions of any kind. I see maps that are using the games default stuff that were made into Sams...not needed they were fine the way they were. Redundancy and prone to error. But to each his/her own, if you are happy with your structure and your maps run and play fine plus they save a game and return without crashing...then what works works.

I am taking labels off my maps from now on they are simply self contained game maps. My maps run super solid, I have had to restructure a few lists from the old ones you may have seen, improving on the structure vastly.

To each their own.

SAM2 Are not Globals Huh? you better think that one over before you say it again. Just because you remove a good or industry off of an RRT_Global.xml file doesn't mean you can change it's name. Any file that only reads as RRT_whatever.xml is a global file to this game.
What a Noob thing to say...

Globals were the name Given By others and it means the Games Master Set of XML's and not a maps. A maps files are called Scenario files.
So Who is the NOOB. You better think that 1 over before you say it again as well.

So by your definition a CIC Is A SAM/SAM2.
As for your maps running super solid I would like to see that yet as you have not completed one yet. Send me a completed map and I will test it out for its solidness. As for Labels I see you finally learned that CIC stands for and decided to drop it.

From what I have been told in the past is you guys are building your maps and not using the games map editor. You place them by random numbers. Use the editor and read what the game writes.

As for making our maps they ARE all made in the terrain editor so you are totally wrong there. And As for a saved game they work fine. But with this game it has been known in the past not to work properly in any maps.

(Oh...the use of the scenario lists is important as the game when you place anything on a game map, writes the Location of said item down on the RRT_Scenario_whatever.xml lists.)

Of Course the Scenario list is important if it was not there no map would work but it still only needs one set of other XML's and not 2 as that is just forcing the game to read both lots using more resources up to see what is needed when it only needs 1 set to do the same job.
The I idea of making these types of maps no matter what you want to call them is to use less computer resources to make them run better and be easier for others to use them as well.

[monserbrat]

WOW!
WOW!

I wasn't going to comment,BUT.......
I feel compelled to post my observations and add
my pov, as well.
I come to these posts and topics because I enjoy
the game as well as the customizations, which you
hard working gamers invent. As I was once [promptly]
told, as a result of a very misplaced post, this banter
and chest pounding should have NO place in the Forums< period!
This forum actually needs a nwwbie only thread
where answers and standardized instructions are available Wiyhout any of the B.S. I have read today.
Members as well as Moderators should not permitt
themselves to become involved in he said,he/she said
off color discussions, leave it home.
I ,for one, have never created or even attempted
to create mods,maps.....etc. I do however know which
work and which do not. Despite any chest pounding
or holy-er than thou comments, a lot of the SAMs still
have their problems.
Rather than arguing in a newbie post, you geniuses
should remove the fog and set a Standard that will
help everyone.
------------
Enough Said

[brandon]

OK, let me get this straight...... A forum is for discussions, and not banter and chest pounding......

ban·ter (bntr)
n.
Good-humored, playful conversation.

Well, no more nice talk guys.

As to the chest pounding that went on on this forum, the claims of how it should be done and what does and does not work is what made this game what it is today. For someone to tell another that they are wrong in what they had in mind (which, by your standards they cannot do in the first place) would have kept this nothing more than a discussion of the original 15 maps. The real world is what it is today because of 'chest pounding'. And in effect, you yourself are 'chest pounding' when you say that 'chest pounding' is wrong.

A nwwbie only thread huh. Is this where ONLY nwwbies are allowed to post thier questions, which can only be answered by nwwbies? OR, if you allow others in, if member A tells nwwbie Z that he needs to do it this way, and he is wrong, member B is not allowed to come in and tell him so? Now THAT will cause problems.

So tell me, where do we start the deletion of members who choose to do this 'chestpounding'?

And in you I see another of the little problems that seems to run freely in this forum....."I do however know which work and which do not. Despite any chest pounding or holy-er than thou comments, a lot of the SAMs still have their problems." One of the members who made those maps left this forum and this was one of the reasons. What maps are giving you problems? How do you expect the problems to be solved if the problem is not brought to the attention of the person who made the map?

Your first post almost a year ago you applauded the members of this forum who have given you what you are playing with and condemned the makers of the game and other software, and never once replied to that thread. Your second post brought up a problem in loading America, a member replied, and you never came back to that either.

I think what you chose to post was what you call 'banter', an action which you condemned during your banter. Then you proceded to pound your chest giving your feeling about the forum and in effect stating that you are right and a bunch of others are wrong.

Why don't you nicely go over to Bobby's Rails ( http://eric.bkbobby.com/ ) and tell snoopy55 and his gang which SAM maps are giving you problems and let them fix them.

By the way, they proudy allow 'banter' over there.

[Jancsika]

Let me wade into this one before it gets out of hand.

It bathers me immensely when arguments and discussions get off in a wrong direction. There always have been “spirited” discussions on this forum in the past. Somehow people think that because they are not facing each other eye-to-eye they can say things that they would not do with direct contact.

I am quite sure that neither brandon nor monserbrat would have said these things facing each other in person.
What I do when I see an upsetting post: I type up a reply, leave it in my editor for a day, then re-read it and more often just delete it.

......and if a map does not work, just make post either here or on Bobby's forum and somebody will come to rescue.
Jancsika

[brandon]

Jancsika, you need to read this post starting 3 pages back. This got out of hand when someone made a comment on a map who had not run it, stating that it would crash, when there were screen shots of it running.

This has not gotten out of hand between monserbrat and me. One person made a remark about a map that he had not run, another responded, and then a third jumped in about one short sentence that had nothing to do with what was being debated. At the time of all of this there was no moderator and the administrators were not watching the forum.

monserbrat should have put his 3-month-to-late-reply in Chat, not here. What should be deleted by the moderator or administrators, at least, should be the offensive picture, offensive to noobs at least, tho it is offensive to all of us since we were all noobs at one time, even the one doing the posting. What SHOULD be deleted by them is everything from about the 10th post on.

And first off, monserbrat was not saying those things to me, and yes, I would say them face to face.