Florida Gold 400 problem

[CobraDriver]

OK so how come when it comes to delivering paper from Jacksonville to Miami , Miami accepts it and I get credit but when going from Jax to to other station up North I get about 12 accepted then it the train goes back and forth without unloading and my getting credit for the delivery.

Is there something else that needs to get delivered there so the paper offloads?

[karsten]

When the paper goes back from Miami to Jacksonville, the latter recognizes it as its own paper, and won't offload or give you credit for it.
But you can take it on to the newspaper in Key West, and that will happily pay for it.

[Tijer]

Cobra Driver - Paper is not the only problem, Food from Tally has the same problem. As better strategy, connect to Titusville and set up a run from the grain and corn farms to the dairy farm near Belle Glade. Once you are making cheese in Titusville connect to the port and start running Double stacks to Lake City and Belle Glade. Again you have to force the double stacks off at the DC. Then connect Belle Glade to Ft. Myers and get the OJ to the DC so that your Double stack train to the DC from the port has OJ for the return trip. Then connect the port to Miami and start running Titanium and then Aerospace parts back to Titusville. The big cash cow in the map is the oil in Tampa. That thing regenerates like water from a tap. As does most everything on the map. Run oil to Ft. Myers, Tampa, and Tally starting with 8 cars each great money producer. The two lumber mills are also the same way. Building a paper mill in Tally and running paper to Pensacola for the newspaper you have to build there also pays well.

All industries are good to buy except the Newspaper in Lake City due to the error in the map since the thing never grows.

[snoopy55]

It's a minor problem that costs major bucks!! You have to click 'empty' to get it to dump the Goods. Then when you go back for the next load, it has to reload all the cars. Sucks up time Mucho!! I did the same thing...got a train set up and started it going. 15 or 20 minutes later I skimmed across the map and noticed it stop, turn around and go back with its load and no pay......

[Lowell]

I wish this would have been posted on my map thread where I could have given an answer. I read my threads and don't search through the forum as I am way too busy.

Look the idea is this...
Using the distribution centers is kind-of wierd in this game. The standard game has it this way, if town "A" makes food, it has to send it's food to every town on the map. Five towns...five trains from town "A"...and so on for all the other five towns and their goods.

Now, if town A could drop off it's food at one spot and then take back whatever goods that town wants, then you have reduced the amount of trains you need on the map.

If a distribution center takes paper and then also gives paper, then you have to drop those cars off at the station...then do not let that train go back empty...take back what the cities want...which in this map is a full train of cars when the cities get to the point where they want all goods.

Food and orange juice are sent to the distribution centers...then the trains that are going back and forth to the port, take back a couple cars of food and orange juice...the map runs fine if you take say three cars of food and one or two of OJ...you don't need more than that to get the production levels up for the double stacked containers.

Move All goods through the distribution centers, even those for the port, as those trains will be going back and forth anyway. No need to make a train that goes from Titusville to the port...the port doesn't need that much food.

The port is setup for a trickle of doublestacked containers and no titanium until you give it orange juice for export. Once you export food products at the port the double stacked container output will increase...again you will have two trains that will be going back and forth from the port to both dist. centers...just place a couple cars of food and oj for the return trip back to the port...that will pay for the trains time on the return trip. Sending too much food and orange juice will deplete the amount you will have on hand for the cities...so don't overdo the port.

This map is such a cash cow that you will have more money than you could ever use. Massive amounts of cars and goods are moved around.

Next time post on my thread and I can respond quicker...
Hope this helps. With the way the game is designed...this is what I came up with. RRT3 allowed for a better mix of train cars and goods, so some things just have to be worked around.

[Tijer]

Well you may not like the way that I completed the map, but the fact is that I did. $1.4 Billion is not shabby, and I completed all objectives with 2 years remaining on the first play thru. Sorry, I do not follow scripts. The intentions where to play the map, not watch a play.

[Lowell]

Well you may not like the way that I completed the map, but the fact is that I did. $1.4 Billion is not shabby, and I completed all objectives with 2 years remaining on the first play thru. Sorry, I do not follow scripts. The intentions where to play the map, not watch a play.

Not at all, run the tracks as you feel, I know how I played it through, but many items can be moved around and even get a better flow of the trains and goods. That is why I built it that way. 2 years left is the right amount of time to complete it. I have done it with three left but that is because I was working ahead of the era goals...everything was timed and every car was tracked, that is where the numbers came from.

Great job, hoped you liked it. I have several more and Mud Skippers is even bigger built on a 16x16 sized map.

[snoopy55]

Let me try to explain this one more time.....

I took Good A from City B to Dist Cent C, dropped it off and went back to City B to get another load. A different train was to take Good A to City D. Dist Cent C had nothing to take back to City B. When you normally take a Good to a City or Industry, to save time you just go there, stop, it empties the cars, and it returns with the empty cars. Saves time. BUT, after one or two trips to Dist Cent C, the train just went back and forth, without unloading any cars. Most of the Goods work the correct way. A few do not for some reason. Unloading a train, deleting the cars, going to the City, adding the cars and then loading the cars is time consuming.

This has to be because of the map since there is nothing else with it and it cannot be because of the computer running it. And there has been more than one of us with the same thing.

[Lowell]

I took Good A from City B to Dist Cent C, dropped it off and went back to City B to get another load. A different train was to take Good A to City D. Dist Cent C had nothing to take back to City B.

...say Titusville is making cheese into food. You take eight cars of Food to Lake City dist. center. The city of Lake City isn't ready for food quite yet as it still needs time to grow. So...at the dist. centers...they accept food...and...give food back. You must dump the cars off or you will be taking food back to where you came, and to boot, Titusville may not be big enough to use their own food yet, hence the train will be just going back and forth with full food cars. Drop the things off. The time it takes for the trains to drop the cars, turn around and take their sweet little time...is part of the maps time scale. It is suposed to make you slow down....smell the roses type stuff. This is not a speedy guns alis type map, it takes forever to complete. It was planned that way.

When you normally take a Good to a City or Industry, to save time you just go there, stop, it empties the cars, and it returns with the empty cars.

Normal industries don't give the same goods back.

the train just went back and forth, without unloading any cars. Most of the Goods work the correct way. A few do not for some reason. Unloading a train, deleting the cars, going to the City, adding the cars and then loading the cars is time consuming.

Again...the centers take and give the same items. You must dump off the cars.

This has to be because of the map since there is nothing else with it and it cannot be because of the computer running it. And there has been more than one of us with the same thing.

Well I would say it would react the same way...it will do that to me if I don't drop off the paper cars. They empty, then fill right back up...same with food.

Most other industries are always set for accept the raw goods to make finished goods, but at the food plant it accepts milk but only gives food out. The centers accept almost everything and...give it right back. That goes for food, orange juice, keylime pies, paper, and so on. You must drop the cars. I know you aren't used to doing that, but after the towns start growing...you will need to drop them and let them take back what goods their city may want from the centers.

No food or any other good should be sent from city to city...all cities must recieve whatever they need from the centers. They take what they make to the centers and drop that off, then as they grow mix mail and passenger cars with whatever goods that city may wish, on that trains return trip.

<Resource>
<Input>Double Stack Containers</Input>
<Output>Manufactured Goods</Output>
<InputOutputRatio>1.3</InputOutputRatio>
</Resource>
<Resource>
<Input>Manufactured Goods</Input>
<Output>Manufactured Goods</Output>
<InputOutputRatio>1.3</InputOutputRatio>
</Resource>
<Resource>
<Input>Food</Input>
<Output>Food</Output>
<InputOutputRatio>1.3</InputOutputRatio>
</Resource>
<Resource>
<Input>Fresh Shrimp</Input>
<Output>Fresh Shrimp</Output>
<InputOutputRatio>1.3</InputOutputRatio>
</Resource>
<Resource>
<Input>Sugar</Input>
<Output>Sugar</Output>
<InputOutputRatio>1.3</InputOutputRatio>
</Resource>
<Resource>
<Input>Paper</Input>
<Output>Paper</Output>
<InputOutputRatio>1.3</InputOutputRatio>
</Resource>
<Resource>
<Input>Textiles</Input>
<Output>Textiles</Output>
<InputOutputRatio>1.3</InputOutputRatio>
</Resource>
<Resource>
<Input>Orange Juice</Input>
<Output>Orange Juice</Output>
<InputOutputRatio>1.3</InputOutputRatio>
</Resource>
<Resource>
<Input>KeyLime Pies</Input>
<Output>KeyLime Pies</Output>
<InputOutputRatio>1.3</InputOutputRatio>
</Resource>
...not to mention that if you use the centers, the flow of goods is boosted just by flowing them through the centers...

So there is nothing wrong...the game is doing just what it is being told to do...you just need to wrap the idea around in your mind as you play...that many of the finished goods on the map flow in and out of those centers. RRT3 ran somewhat the same. Mixed cars would come in, then drop cars, then fillup with whatever is needed as they move on.

In this game, the centers work fine, you must drop the goods cars as you go however...unless you just like seeing the full cars going back and forth.

[snoopy55]

For SOME goods, the train does NOT stop, it runs up to the station, turns around and runs back to the city, turns around and runs back...no stopping, no slowing down, no money, no nothing but maintinence fees. In 18 months of testing I have never seen this unless the Good is not needed, wanted, accepted, however you put it. Since they are at your Dist Cent, something else is wrong. Don't give a step by step instruction on what should really be done, find a reason for what is happening. I'm not blaming your map, but something ain't right.

If I find the time, I'll run the map and upload the save.

[Tijer]

The fact is simple, The DC is full. so unless you force it to accept more, it will not. The way the map is designed, you build tracks from your start location to the resource, to feed the industry in your town. Then you are to take that product to the DC. Then you are suppose to connect to the other DC and ship the items to that DC, and then on to the final industry that needs them. The problem is that you have to build all this track with very little capital. This occurs when the first DC becomes full, and you do not have the funds to connect the second DC and must wait, or find an alternative track scheme. So long as you dump the items at the DC you get paid, for some reason you get paid the full amount. If this had been a real situation you would not get paid squat. Any way, From what I have seen the best strategy, depends on where you start.

JAX - Once a line is dumping paper at the LC DC connect JAX to MIA. Then run the paper to MIA from JAX directly. Then use those earnings to connect LC to BG then to MIA. A duel line between LC and BG will move more paper, faster.

Titusville - Connect the two farms to the west to the dairy that is to the SW of Titusville. Then run the milk to Titusville. Then it was the mappers intention that you take the resulting cheese to LC DC, and then to the Port at Cape Canaveral, east of Titusville. In return for the food you get Double Stack Containers to return to LC DC. What I do instead is connect Titusville to the port and then connect the port to LC DC and then connect the Port to BG DC.

Tally - Connect the fishery to Tally and then Tally to the LC DC. Connect LC DC to Port Canaveral. Run food to receive Double Stacks and Manufactured Goods.

Lake City - That is the same as Tally.

From that point connect BG DC to Fort Myers and connect Fort Myers to the Orange Grove. Ship Orange Juice to BG DC and then from BG DC to Port Canaveral. This produces Titanium that gets shipped to MIA to make parts for NASA. Then get the paper moving to MIA from JAX directly as well as through the two DCs.

At this point you should be rolling in dough, and the rest is basic. The only thing to remember when you are dealing with the DCs is to clear your cars to get paid, no big deal. After all it will be the only time that you will get paid for dumping your load in the street.

[Lowell]

The same will happen to any of the industries. Just keep dropping eight cars of say milk to the dairy...it will react the same. The game dosn't know what a dist. center is...it looks at it just like any other industry.

Cities can be made to be to operate like a dist center themselves...just let the city store however much of a good that comes in to it...then have that same city give that good. It is the same thing.

<ProductionModifiers>
<Resource>
<Input>Food</Input>
<Output>Food</Output>
<InputOutputRatio>1.000000</InputOutputRatio>
<MaxStorage>300.0</MaxStorage>
</Resource>

See...it's the same thing to the game...and...it behaves the same way through tests I've done...it also works, but for all cities of that type setting, not just one or two.

You get paid for dropping off the cars of goods...soon enough your eight cars of whatever going back and forth will srink down to nothing as the cities take the goods as they grow, then you will need two of every industry just to keep the numbers of the goods up at the centers. To get to that point you have to play the game well into era 2 and beyond. At the very first couple years you will be mostly broke, you need to manage your money and sell that paper and build those long rail lines needed for the map.

Once you are well into era 2, the map begins to kick-in...so you need to play this thing for awhile...then comment.

[Tijer]

To be honest, I see no reason to play the map multiple times. Once you leave the start position, all things are the same. There are better scripted maps, that do not take 2 days to play. The map is landscaped nice, but the graphics work still needs to be refined. Also as a native Floridian, I have a problem with the historical side of the map. The fact is Southern Railway never truly ran track past JAX. They dropped their goods in JAX and the Florida East Coast delivered them as well as the Atlantic Coastline, Seaboard Airline, Seaboard Coastline which are now the CSX. The American Riviera was developed by Henry Flagler and the FEC and Henry Plant and the Plant System. Flagler owned part of the Plant System, but no records exist of Plant owning part of the FEC. In building the FEC, Flagler constructed the largest wood frame structure with the completion of the Royal Poinciana Hotel in Palm Beach. A seven story wood structure with over 7 miles of carpet in the hallways alone. Then in construction of the Key West extension, the FEC built 2 Engineering wonders of the world. Bahia Honda at 3.5 miles long and the 7 Mile Bridge which is over 7 miles long. The pilings for all the bridges are constructed of steel reinforced salt water concrete. Something that is impossible to create today, let alone provide service for almost 80 years. The bridges that replaced them had major structure cracks with in 3 years of completion. Anyway, the point is, instead of showing the great achievements as they occurred, this map pays homage to a railroad that built a line from the state line to JAX, 30 miles? Then makes it look like the FEC is a subdivision of Southern Railway. What a farce !

[mikeyc]

Tijer. What a pain you are. Its only a map and as such the mapper has some licence to alter things to suit their map. How about you producing one as good as Florida Gold.

[Tijer]

Sorry you do not like to deal with details, but they are important. When you build a specific railroad map you are giving the impression of historical fact. This map has none. Since I have been waiting 12+ months for this map, all the hoopla has produced a bomb. No new concepts where developed in this map, and no new territory was created.

The art work is sloppy. The cargo ship has no texture, just color, the same can be said for the Key West resort. The sign on the Key Lime Pie Factory is messed up. The Sugar Cane Farm has flickering shadows as does the jail that was taken from SMPirates. The distribution centers are out of scale as are the both ships. My point is that compared to Utah, this thing is a disgrace. You all are passing out praise like you are being paid to advertise. Not to mention 13 months of advertising, all over the forum on everyone’s thread. Then we have the fact that the map was running “Super Fast”, but when the thing was released for Beta testing it was missing files. How could this be when the touted claim was that everything was in one folder?

As for my own map, who's to say that I am not building one. Nothing states that I must advertise it all over the forum. Currently, I am attempting to create a KFM. I do not know about you, but I do know that we are going to run out of things to steal from Civ IV and Pirates. Anyway the KFM is new turf, the folks at Nif Tools have not entered that area, specifically in relation to SMR. But then the area only gets opened when someone volunteers to work there. What this means is that I am on my own with little or no support. Building the structure in Blender is the easy part, adding needed animation (KF) is not, then creating the KFM compounds the problem. The NIF files used in SMR are different then the ones used in other NIF games created by Fireaxis and 2K. So if you are offering to help, please do not hide your hand. The intentions of my map is to have content that is actually new and not just a colored version of something stolen from another game.

Also other projects that I am involved in are SAM and the BBs. Currently, I am testing the SAMs that Snoopy has completed. It is my understanding that Snoopy had some people beta testing them, but I have found that the testing was not done properly, thus the work has to be redone. I guess it is like everything else, if you want a job done right, you have to do it yourself. Since this was already outsourced once, it will stay with me until I am ready to release it. For some reason some members are hell bent to see SAM fail. The fact is it will not. The process of converting the existing maps to SAM is a long and tedious process. Pouring thru pages of files to assemble the content. For the most part Snoopy has been on his own in this field. All with not so much as a thank you from the majority of the active members of the forum, but plenty of grief about the GLOBALS instead. While at the same time, those whiners have produced nothing of substance.

In closing on this topic, I have stated what I am doing. In general my strong suit is finding solutions to problems and making things work that don’t. I do not spend my day posting all over the forum my praises. Sorry if that makes it look like I do nothing, but complain. The fact is that the opposite is true. It takes at least twice as much work to create something new then it does to steal and assemble and post. As for this map, the thing is still loaded with unneeded files. All of which are loaded in to RAM thus wasting space. All of Calm Dragon’s maps create more of a challenge then this one map, so why all the hoopla. I will be playing Jansikia’s and Rodea’s maps shortly, so I can not comment on those as of yet. I will state that Rodea did some great work on Florida Gold, what I am sorry about is that when credit was finally given to him, it was given as an after thought and fell far short of what he deserved.

So since I have been challenged to create a map, I will. Judging by the time frame I will have 12 months to complete it. Do NOT expect updates and advertising all over the forum. The map will have never before seen content. When I say seen content, I am stating that I will be creating the content from scratch, and not stealing it from any other NIF games. Unlike Florida Gold it will not have a set of GLOBALS placed in the User Map files, instead it will be built as a SAM, where only the game side globals are used, and all custom content is on the scenario side. The Map will be historically accurate as far as major events. Is their anything else that you require? In reference to yourself, just what have you been up to? I see that you like to play maps, but what else do you do? I have read your posts, but I must have missed the items that you have created? Please enlighten me, Master.

Author Message
Lowell Post subject: Map editing question
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:55 pm
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:14 am
Posts: 504
Location: Atlanta,Georgia I enlarged the Florida map to a size 20 map (runs great.) What do I need to do to cleanup the edges?

I can have some luck at editing and enlarging the bank all the way around, but some dark edges still show.


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Just in case there is any question as to the 12 month time frame. Go view the post before it gets edited. It is defiantly the Florida Gold 400 Map.