Been playing this game a lot for couple of months now mostly on Tycoon level with 3 opponents and hard routing.
I noticed that AI always uses very simple train routing:
a. pickup resource
b. deliver resource to city
c. repeat
It is up to other trains to collect the processed goods from the city and deliver it somewhere else.
So far I have been using 'complex' routing whenever possible
Example:
a. pickup coal
b. deliver coal to city
c. pickup steel manufactured since last visit to the city
d. deliver steel to another city
e. pickup cars/arms manufactured since last visit to the city
f. deliver cars/arms back to city I got the steel from
g. repeat
My obvious questions are:
Has anybody tested these two scenarios in depth?
if so which is more profitable?
One advantage I can see right away is that AI's approach reduces traffic as hauling lots of mixed freight means less trains using the same track. This can also lead to less double and tripple tracking.
simple v complex routing
Upon buying out AIs and examining the ones with only a few tracks I notice two things:
1: they tend to lay track, place annexes, and not use it.
2: they run one or two trains, one of which seems to jump around everywhere and do nothing until you carefully reason it out and see they're making money.
One other thing I see on short 1 to 1 runs, the consist varies each stop because of what might be at the station.
1: they tend to lay track, place annexes, and not use it.
2: they run one or two trains, one of which seems to jump around everywhere and do nothing until you carefully reason it out and see they're making money.
One other thing I see on short 1 to 1 runs, the consist varies each stop because of what might be at the station.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....
I go for simple routing in the sense of, each train has dedicated track and a fairly dedicated terminal. There are extremely few exceptions (the long route from NYC to WDC for victory points being one). Express trains ping-pong P+M between two cities, the shorter the route, the better. Usually on the middle of three tracks. Then freight (which is not time dependent) uses track 1 or 3, and sometimes resources will tie into their terminals, right at the terminal. (It doesn't matter if they have to wait for the other to deliver, because it's not time dependent.)
In the long run though, I suppose that the only thing that matters is how efficiently you are using your trains. They all cost serious maintenance money (even with the Lube Patent). So, the more actual cargo you are hauling - especially if you can haul both ways - the better.
In my early games, I tried lot of complex switching but the trains always got snarled up after a point.
I'm not sure if this answers your question very well
In the long run though, I suppose that the only thing that matters is how efficiently you are using your trains. They all cost serious maintenance money (even with the Lube Patent). So, the more actual cargo you are hauling - especially if you can haul both ways - the better.
In my early games, I tried lot of complex switching but the trains always got snarled up after a point.
I'm not sure if this answers your question very well
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aurora-glacialis
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:38 pm
I think I will try simple routing next time. Complex routing just ends up in traffic jams or chaos. I just had 2 games where trains went all over the map in places far from their destination... Simple routing would have the advantage of less traffic on a track and you would never have half-empty waggons when the production of goods can't keep up with the delivery. Sadly, there is no way to make one-way tracks, otherwise the traffic problem would be less important since you could just make two tracks - one for each direction and basically have a circle line. But as it is, more than one train per track will cause problems, even if there are crossovers to other tracks. I even had trains going zic-zac on two tracks for no apparent reason.
I run a train from a resource to a city on a dedicated spur. I run a passenger/mail train (sometimes just freight) between 1 to 3 stations on double track. I run a second freight train between the same stops once they have goods to shuttle back and forth. I try to make each train always haul something to their limit but also try to minimize changing cars wherever possible. Some trains are unique depending on the goals.
I don't know if this is simple or complex...to me it's common sense.
scrapser
I don't know if this is simple or complex...to me it's common sense.
scrapser
Good question, Scrapser... what is simple vs complex?
I interpret it as, simple = keeping trains limited as to what track they can be on. complex = setting up tracks so that trains can choose which ones they use (with cross-overs to other tracks going the same way, etc.).
For simple, you can still have more than one track going into a station, of course, and you can also have more than one train using one particular track (or station drop-off). For example: trains without lower priority will always stop for higher priorities... since speed only matters for passengers and mail, it's ok to have other goods with lower priority, on the same track.
Anyway. To me, simple routing means, any given train has to use one particular path, without any choice to use any other track. Your tracks could even look like a hellacious spaghetti mess, rising over each other, etc., even... but as long as a given train has to use one particular path, it's simple routing.
Is that what it means to the rest of you on this thread?
Edit: Arg, I just remembered that DePol calls it something different, when he started this thread. Hmm. By DePol's definition, I will use complex routing until the point where I have a lot of goods to go particular ways. Then I go to simple routing, because there are only so many tracks. I always try to use dedicated tracks (ala, my definition of simple), which gets hard if there are more than a few of your "complex" routings, DePol.
Still, it's good stuff to look into. At this point I am just trying to make sure trains never get snarled up.
I interpret it as, simple = keeping trains limited as to what track they can be on. complex = setting up tracks so that trains can choose which ones they use (with cross-overs to other tracks going the same way, etc.).
For simple, you can still have more than one track going into a station, of course, and you can also have more than one train using one particular track (or station drop-off). For example: trains without lower priority will always stop for higher priorities... since speed only matters for passengers and mail, it's ok to have other goods with lower priority, on the same track.
Anyway. To me, simple routing means, any given train has to use one particular path, without any choice to use any other track. Your tracks could even look like a hellacious spaghetti mess, rising over each other, etc., even... but as long as a given train has to use one particular path, it's simple routing.
Is that what it means to the rest of you on this thread?
Edit: Arg, I just remembered that DePol calls it something different, when he started this thread. Hmm. By DePol's definition, I will use complex routing until the point where I have a lot of goods to go particular ways. Then I go to simple routing, because there are only so many tracks. I always try to use dedicated tracks (ala, my definition of simple), which gets hard if there are more than a few of your "complex" routings, DePol.
Still, it's good stuff to look into. At this point I am just trying to make sure trains never get snarled up.
Although I can't really back up my thoughts with hard facts, I feel that simple routing is much more profitable. I used to use complex routing (since RRT1 & 2 vets are so trained to do so), but with SMR you have a new problem of the industries taking time to produce goods (RRT1&2 would be produced instantly). This leads to problems:
1. It takes time for the second leg to become profitable, losing money on raw goods early.
2. When delivering produced goods, you are letting raw goods sit at their source being undelivered, unprocessed, and combining to lost future profits.
3. This is a big one - it is VERY easy for the AI to connect to your city and "steal" your profits by delivering your produced goods while you're back filling up with raw goods.
You basically have to beat the AI at their own game. I now run raw resource spurs (deliver coal to city A, turn around & repeat, with one train on one track) with separate trains running to deliver the produced goods.
This gets especially profitable when you have one train delivering coal on one track, and then another taking the produced steel, delivering it to make autos, loading up the autos, and then taking them back to the city where more steel is waiting to be picked up. Get this sort of route going and you can beat the AI EVERY time, even on Robber Baron difficulty.
Also, don't forget that a train with eight empty cars runs just as fast as one with no cars at all - meaning that as long as you aren't switching goods, throwing on all eight cars is always the most profitable (as long as the extra cars don't cause delays with other trains, which they shouldn't if all trains are on their own tracks).
1. It takes time for the second leg to become profitable, losing money on raw goods early.
2. When delivering produced goods, you are letting raw goods sit at their source being undelivered, unprocessed, and combining to lost future profits.
3. This is a big one - it is VERY easy for the AI to connect to your city and "steal" your profits by delivering your produced goods while you're back filling up with raw goods.
You basically have to beat the AI at their own game. I now run raw resource spurs (deliver coal to city A, turn around & repeat, with one train on one track) with separate trains running to deliver the produced goods.
This gets especially profitable when you have one train delivering coal on one track, and then another taking the produced steel, delivering it to make autos, loading up the autos, and then taking them back to the city where more steel is waiting to be picked up. Get this sort of route going and you can beat the AI EVERY time, even on Robber Baron difficulty.
Also, don't forget that a train with eight empty cars runs just as fast as one with no cars at all - meaning that as long as you aren't switching goods, throwing on all eight cars is always the most profitable (as long as the extra cars don't cause delays with other trains, which they shouldn't if all trains are on their own tracks).
Bleser - you need to add a 2.5 in there to help releive the pain from #3 - before I run goods into a city, say coal, I buy the industry, steel mill, then even if an AI gets the steel before I do, I still get payed for it. The best way is to figure where you want to run a track, buy the industry, then run your track. The AIs tend not to be as after things that look useless.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....
Bleser wrote:Although I can't really back up my thoughts with hard facts, I feel that simple routing is much more profitable. I used to use complex routing (since RRT1 & 2 vets are so trained to do so), but with SMR you have a new problem of the industries taking time to produce goods (RRT1&2 would be produced instantly). This leads to problems:
1. It takes time for the second leg to become profitable, losing money on raw goods early.
2. When delivering produced goods, you are letting raw goods sit at their source being undelivered, unprocessed, and combining to lost future profits.
3. This is a big one - it is VERY easy for the AI to connect to your city and "steal" your profits by delivering your produced goods while you're back filling up with raw goods.
You basically have to beat the AI at their own game. I now run raw resource spurs (deliver coal to city A, turn around & repeat, with one train on one track) with separate trains running to deliver the produced goods.
This gets especially profitable when you have one train delivering coal on one track, and then another taking the produced steel, delivering it to make autos, loading up the autos, and then taking them back to the city where more steel is waiting to be picked up. Get this sort of route going and you can beat the AI EVERY time, even on Robber Baron difficulty.
Also, don't forget that a train with eight empty cars runs just as fast as one with no cars at all - meaning that as long as you aren't switching goods, throwing on all eight cars is always the most profitable (as long as the extra cars don't cause delays with other trains, which they shouldn't if all trains are on their own tracks).
I agree with this 100%. Especially during online play. If I don't deliver those resources and goods, someone else will. Btw with 3 spurs coming out of a city with another track going to another city, which also has 3 spurs is a beautiful thing to look at.
Yeah, I forgot to add the beautiful part... AGREED.Kroguys wrote:Bleser wrote:Although I can't really back up my thoughts with hard facts, I feel that simple routing is much more profitable. I used to use complex routing (since RRT1 & 2 vets are so trained to do so), but with SMR you have a new problem of the industries taking time to produce goods (RRT1&2 would be produced instantly). This leads to problems:
1. It takes time for the second leg to become profitable, losing money on raw goods early.
2. When delivering produced goods, you are letting raw goods sit at their source being undelivered, unprocessed, and combining to lost future profits.
3. This is a big one - it is VERY easy for the AI to connect to your city and "steal" your profits by delivering your produced goods while you're back filling up with raw goods.
You basically have to beat the AI at their own game. I now run raw resource spurs (deliver coal to city A, turn around & repeat, with one train on one track) with separate trains running to deliver the produced goods.
This gets especially profitable when you have one train delivering coal on one track, and then another taking the produced steel, delivering it to make autos, loading up the autos, and then taking them back to the city where more steel is waiting to be picked up. Get this sort of route going and you can beat the AI EVERY time, even on Robber Baron difficulty.
Also, don't forget that a train with eight empty cars runs just as fast as one with no cars at all - meaning that as long as you aren't switching goods, throwing on all eight cars is always the most profitable (as long as the extra cars don't cause delays with other trains, which they shouldn't if all trains are on their own tracks).
I agree with this 100%. Especially during online play. If I don't deliver those resources and goods, someone else will. Btw with 3 spurs coming out of a city with another track going to another city, which also has 3 spurs is a beautiful thing to look at.
I conceed to the point. Silly me figured that profits were made by what went out the door, not by production. This means that if you have a town at one end of the map and the only place for finished product is at the other end, don't worry about it, just keep ramming those raw materials in there cause you make a profit even if they don't ship! Yes, you make more if you pick them up and deliver them where needed, but hey, this isn't the real worldBleser wrote:Is this really true? I only thought you gained revenue from an industry you owned by delivering raw goods to that industry, no?snoopy55 wrote:Yes, I do agree with him, but I only add buy the industry first if you can. The other guys have to pay you to walk off with the goods.
You should stop making profit when you run out of wharehouse space. If the limit is 8, after 8 you're just wasting raw materials and you shouldn't make a profit from the company. But, I still want it left alone as long as I can profit 
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....
Good stuff guys..
One thing I don't think I fully saw..
If you pick up coal or any thing with all eight coal cars and don't take any off for the return trip there will be no delay or very little delay at either station.
This also works for passengers and mail.. just make sure you have enough cars to carry all from one stop and leave them all on no matter how many are needed.. less delay means faster round trips = more $
As Bleser said eight empty cars run as fast as no cars on, so just leave them on..
A few times I was picking up fish on a very short run and all the train ever did was switch directions as it picked up fish and dropped them off.. the train didn't even need to move just change directions..
One thing I don't think I fully saw..
If you pick up coal or any thing with all eight coal cars and don't take any off for the return trip there will be no delay or very little delay at either station.
This also works for passengers and mail.. just make sure you have enough cars to carry all from one stop and leave them all on no matter how many are needed.. less delay means faster round trips = more $
As Bleser said eight empty cars run as fast as no cars on, so just leave them on..
A few times I was picking up fish on a very short run and all the train ever did was switch directions as it picked up fish and dropped them off.. the train didn't even need to move just change directions..