Railroads! and showing Firaxis we want to see it thrive.

[Lowell]

Microsoft Train Sim or Rail Simulator one has a program that you can "make your own engine" out of random parts...boilers, cabs etc. I used it once or twice; have it buried in a hard drive somewhere. Those make the models in that game's file format only. I have an app that makes parts for ships. I use that in Ship Simulator Pro to make/edit all kinds of watercraft.
...Plug time... The Particles Within http://forums.introversion.co.uk/darwin ... php?t=3097 part 2 is now near completion. My new pages for my art site are almost done as well...all my games I mod will be there with all files for each, plus a gigantic list of stuff for Half-Life 2.

[Truth]

here is a look at some of the other stuff near complete...

It looks like some of them are already complete....


http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/ ... /33686.jpg

[Lowell]

...yup...those are the models I have for my Vue 'd Esprit. I have begun work on animating the wheels etc. I am going to try and make the nif files in blender.
...also checkout TurboSquid.com they have many more models. There is a Big Boy there that advertises the animations are already made, with most of all other files that may be needed.

[RockyNarrowGauge]

I think you need to read the Terms of Service here

http://www.contentparadise.com/us/user/ ... conditions

section 1 and 13 which say "You may not copy, reproduce, modify, publish, upload, post, transmit, or distribute any part of CONTENT PARADISE without prior written permission from SMSI.". Now if by chance you have that permission, fine and dandy, but any one else using what you put in a map does not have permission and could get into big trouble.

http://www.turbosquid.com/OneOff/EULA.cfm

IV - 1 there it also states in so many words that you cannot use that stuff for others to use in their maps, which was repeatedly done with that tanker you used in your map.

There is a part of both of those that say you must give FULL credit to where you got all of that from, which you did not do here, or with the tanker until you were confronted with it. Also in your posting that stuff you are subjecting Hooked Gamers to the same possible legal problems.

If you do have written permission for you to use them and for anyone else who wants to to use them then I think you need to have those two sites make a post on this site to verify it for the safety of anyone else who may want to use them later.

Another nice point to look at is the EULA. Any map created, and ALL of its contents, belong to Firaxis. BUT, the material you are posting belongs to Content Paradise and the person who created the materials. This means that the stuff you put in your map will belong to two different corperations. Can't be done, legally. I think people need to think this over before problems arise.

[Lowell]

I get permission for any models I use on any free game mod projects. Often the model builder will assist in the models use. The oil tanker was such a game model. I even have new music introduced from professional artists like Caleb Hawkins. Not to mention that after the engine/train car has been edited and converted, it's not the same as releasing the 3D files. Also any mods I make, there is always info inside my files that give full credits and any instructions for future use. Caleb Hawkins for example, doesn't mind if other mod makers use his music for their in-game city music...he only asks that the new mod maker place any credits for his music on their files and or a link to his site somewhere in the info.

Thanks for your concern, these are items that have been discussed. Many times the model builder is pleased to have their work used...after all that is why it is for sale. If this were a commercial project, they would get paid and royalties...free projects are different...the LWO or 3DS files will never get to 2K Games (who now own the game.) Those train engine and car models are on several art sites selling the files. Although a long lasting member of Content Paradise, TurboSquid, Cornacopia 3D and tons more, and these models are on their pages...however the models were purchased from a different source.

Say have a Merry Christmas everyone...

[Lowell]

IV - 1 there it also states in so many words that you cannot use that stuff for others to use in their maps, which was repeatedly done with that tanker you used in your map.

The oil tankers use in this game has already been gone over by me and the model builder. He already knows that the model might be used in other maps for this game...he is fine with others using the model. The updated files for that scenario have new credits and info inside. The main page for the mod will be edited soon and more credits added, as Florida Gold is getting a new set of roads to run with. So to me that map is half done...should be complete for good soon.

If you do have written permission for you to use them and for anyone else who wants to to use them then I think you need to have those two sites make a post on this site to verify it for the safety of anyone else who may want to use them later.

Not needed, as I said the 3D files are not uploaded anywhere. I let the model builders know that the converted model will be used by other map makers...they don't care...or I don't use the model. I myself have made many models that are out and in use.

...been doing game mods for eight years now...over a dozen games...again thanks for your concern but we all know this already. It might have been nice to ask if I had permission rather than accusing me of something.

[RockyNarrowGauge]

I have been modeling some new train engines and cars though.

Shouldn't that have been 'editing' instead of 'modeling', since that is what you are doing?

There are several models I have been working on…4 steam engines, one electric, two tenders, an old style passenger and baggage car set, a new wood car are the ones that are near completion.

No mention of where they came from.

I have made a couple snapshots of what I am working on.

Your 'snapshots' look exactly like the 'snapshots' on the sites'

Often the model builder will assist in the models use. The oil tanker was such a game model.

There was never any mention of the model builder assisting you with that tanker, (I believe Rodea2007 assisted you) and you never even mentioned that you had bought it until you were confronted with the fact. And your map, and all the other maps that it appeared in, made no mention of where it originated from.

Not to mention that after the engine/train car has been edited and converted, it's not the same as releasing the 3D files.

So, this means that anyone can download something from this forum, or any other site, and as long as they make one simple change, they can call it their own. (Hmmm, download the Florida Gold map, add the missing parts, change one cities name, and it's mine.)

Also any mods I make, there is always info inside my files that give full credits and any instructions for future use.

No credit given yet, and no credit ever given to the creater of the tanker.

If this were a commercial project, they would get paid and royalties...free projects are different...the LWO or 3DS files will never get to 2K Games.

Read the manual that came with SMR. It states that anything created for this game, including maps, belongs to them. So, you are taking someone elses work and giving it to 2K. They can download every map on this forum and sell them, and nothing can be done about it.

Those train engine and car models are on several art sites selling the files. Although a long lasting member of Content Paradise, TurboSquid, Cornacopia 3D and tons more, and these models are on their pages...however the models were purchased from a different source.

And you have yet to give credit to the site, or person, they came from. The only credit you have given is to yourself. Editing thing like those is not a real problem, the creation is, and the person who created them should have been credited at you first post of them. Please stop patting yourself on the back.

[Lowell]

I have owned Lightwave ever since version 5.1 and beta tested version 9. I model/animate in Lightwave, Vue and many others. Those engines need knuckle couplers and the wheels need cut off on the cars first. Rodea2007 only converted the files to Nif for me in his 3D Max...he is not the artist of the tanker I was speaking of. The files for my mods are not on this site...you are downloading those files from my art site. The updated F/G files will have new/expanded credits for all. Rodea2007 found his cargo vessel and used it on his maps...have you flamed him too?

(Hmmm, download the Florida Gold map, add the missing parts, change one cities name, and it's mine.)

Sure, you may copy my work if you feel the need to. I would name it something different. And no...that is not what I was saying about editing and file conversion, I still list the model maker...the f/g files got scrambled during the last CIC rebuild, everything was done in a hurry and it needs gone over. The guts were cut & pasted to clean xml lists, and some of the comments were changed. Whatever info I have the artist wanted published for credit will be included.

So let's see...even though I have permission from all artists plus have even talked with 2K about these and other issues on the phone, you feel we should all, as a group never use outside content.

What do others feel, should my files and mods be pulled from this site? Opinions anyone?

I guess I don't get what you are saying about the site where the models were purchased. For the tanker, the artist that modeled it, uploaded it to a gazillion art sites and posted it for sale everywhere. It is the artist that I email after I buy such a model and talk in detail about converting the file into a nif in this case. I saved it out in Lightwave as 3Ds and sent it to Rodea2007 who was nice to convert it for me as I hadn't gotten blender and it's plugin for nif export. What is your point...the artist of the tanker model has been to the thread for the game map and he has a set of the game files too. So what is your point? I only have so much room on a read me you know.

EDIT// I noticed you made a comment about the game maps being sent to 2K and concern about this/any new content.
This has already been discussed by others and myself in concern. You need not worry about any of that, it is all taken care of. Rest assured if 2K would want to use his oil tanker…they will have his personal email address. Caleb Hawkins music info as well…see part of the deal is exposure, but of course you were not involved in any of those talks with the artists concerned.

Please stop patting yourself on the back.

This is a learning exercise. Game mods give me mini projects to learn by doing. If I am missing anything, I am the first to look up, ask and listen to others, plus help anyone that wants to learn. I help where I am able, others teach me more as well. We are all trying to have fun here. I always tell people to tear apart my files and learn from them, or teach me something I may not have seen. Ask any beta tester of my maps.

[RockyNarrowGauge]

Often the model builder will assist in the models use. The oil tanker was such a game model.

There was never any mention of the model builder assisting you with that tanker, (I believe Rodea2007 assisted you) and you never even mentioned that you had bought it until you were confronted with the fact. And your map, and all the other maps that it appeared in, made no mention of where it originated from.

I'm sorry about confusing you. Let me restate that. "There was never any mention of the model builder assisting you with that tanker, and you never even mentioned that you had bought it until you were confronted with the fact. And your map, and all the other maps that it appeared in, made no mention of where it originated from. I do believe that Rodea2007 assisted you, not the actual model builder." Did that clear up what I said? When you posted the map you gave no credit to Rodea2007 for helping you, and you gave no credit the person created it, assisted you with it, (and I'm not speaking of Rodea2007 at this point) and who supposidly gave you permission to ignore the legal postings and use in the way you did.

"9. CONTENT PARADISE is copyrighted proprietary material of SMSI. You may not copy, reproduce, modify, publish, upload, post, transmit, or distribute any part of CONTENT PARADISE without prior written permission from SMSI. SMSI vigorously protects its copy and ownership rights and may prosecute violators civilly and/or criminally."

If I were in such good association with these modelers as you say you are, I would have had them post to this site and verify what you say, and in your case, this would have to include an official of Turbo Squid since you have mentioned that you got permission from them on the phone. When those modelers agree to have their materials posted on those sites, they agree also to the rules of the site, which state that they cannot give permission for others to freely spread that material all over the internet.

And with that I beleive that I'll end this discussion. You are either a concrete wall or a politician, neither of which are worth trying to have an inteligent discussion with.

[Lowell]

The ship model was not purchased from turbo squid...I never said where I purchased the model. Only that I did and have written permission to use it. I will post as credits what the artist has requested. On the updated map, the model builders credits will be listed, it must have gotten erased during editing and was not intended. If you read my openning page for the mod Rodea2008 is credited for helping me with the ship and other items.

A Big Special Thanks goes out to all the Beta Testers... mikeyc, dwax, xfgexo, karsten, K-Class, mobileguy, burningman50 for beta testing and ideas...Rodea2007 for his help on the oil tanker and cargo dock as well as the sugar cane field industry. Special Thanks to burningman50 for his ideas, testing and devotion to the project, even after the fifty million updated maps he had to play.

I do not have any Content Paridse models on any game mods anywhere. Where are you getting this stuff? Those models are for sale on several other 3D model sites. I purchased the models and did find them on Content's, TurboSquid's and several other sites...but my models are not purchased from there. At the moment I am in the process of emailing the model artists and talking about permission for the trains and train cars use in the game. If they decline, I will find other new models and work with them. But my purchase of those 3D models allows me to use them on my projects, that includes showing the renders of them on my art site or my projects.

[Lowell]

This is weird anyway because TurboSquid sells models for commercial use. It's a forum where artists can post their models for sale...plus in the forum, artists post looking for work everyday, I know I get ten zillion emails from there every day it seems. You buy a user license with the model. I could use the 3D plans to make a brass model of the ship and sell it if I wish, or use it in the next Ship Sim.

[RockyNarrowGauge]

Before I head back to Colorado, I hate Chicago this time of year, I'll make one more post here.

Maybe what you need to do, just to clear things up, is to list the sites where you purchased those from, that way I could read the rules of the site and give you any apoligies needed.

I also think you need to read the posts you made above and read the posts you are refering to. You're confusing yourself and anyone reading them by contradicting your own posts.

And as to who I am and how long I been 'part' of this forum, I'm a man who lives in Colorado, loves narrow gauge, trains, has a full basement of computer controlled HO gauge, and I'm happily married. I've been reading this forum since Dec of 2006. I fail to see your problem in either case. (I do have friends that email me of interesting posts made on this forum)

Well, if those reading these posts don't hear from me, I either didn't make it back because of the weather or didn't see any reason to continue talking to the concrete wall or politition mentioned above. When you post those pictures of what you plan on editing, post the name of the artist who created them, and where you got them from. That will give credit where it's due, and give others a place to look for things themselves.

And credit should be given in a 'ReadMe' text uploaded with the map, and included at the top of every XML noting the item and the artist. And those using that material later should do the same. And I'm talking about legal considerations, not who on this forum edited what. Once that material is posted here, it becomes public goods.

And I'm off.

Happy New Year Everyone!

[Lowell]

When you buy the model files, there are default rendered images of the model. I did use those jpgs from the files...I will make new renders for them after I get them edited.

I see what you are talking about. I mentioned that the scenario file had many edits near the end, then totally ripped apart and rebuilt, so much has happened from that time. The old thread needs closed and removed, so a new thread can be made. The new mod files for that map, will have credits in several places. In the xml files as notes...In the discription of the mods thread...inside the ReadMe file in the mods file folder...inside the comments area of the mod when you are in the map pick screen...then lastly inside the game, when you first enter the map, that comment browser that pops up at the start of the game. All those areas will have new credits that will even include beta map testers.

That should cover anything in that area. Over the years I have built-up a gigantic library of 3D models. And yes, you are suposed to list an artist name that built a model if you are going to use it on a project of your own. Any use of a model like that and then published needs approval. I was given permission to use the tanker and yes that means anyone at this fan site may use it in their maps. My new thread will explain that they should add in the artists name, the same for the in-city music of Caleb Hawkins...somehow through the confusion, the artists name who modeled the tanker is missing. Unintentional, didn't even knotice...and is being fixed anyway as I have rebuilt those menus and discriptions. Thanks for seeing that and letting me know, I will correct the old info, the new stuff has it added. Funny thing is, the tanker artist also has all the files, he also read through everything and we both must have missed it.

Once that material is posted here, it becomes public goods.

Hmm...see what you mean. The thought was, we could use the model at the fan site as a group for our game mods. CIV4 could nab the model, so could anyone else for that matter. I will email the artist and see what thoughts he may have. Thanks for the thought.

EDIT//To get really technical...no game maps should have "real railroad names" on any maps, unless fees and taxes are paid to the American railroad you are modeling. This has been gone over with models used in MSTS and others. Even when we buy our HO scale trains and train cars, if they have real road names on them, the factory that built and sold them pays the railroads for the "right" to use their name. That is why this game was built with generic names only. So technically, no maps publicly published should have a real railroad name on the project. One reason that I made up the MudSkipper Railroad name for that mod. Others had started using real names, and I guess I jumped right in as well...but those real railroad names are trademarks that depict a commercial project.

Yes I mentioned I was modeling, I am making new industry buildings and a couple other items, the engines are models I recently purchased, those are being looked into.

Have a safe flight back.

[Lowell]

The license I purchased when I bought the model is valid, as I have stated. The 3D files purchased have not ever been released, those are mine. The model that is in the game is a "converted" model and doesn't contain any of the original 3D files. So I have the right to use this model in this game as a mod or any other. Even the Ship Sim game as a mod. That game uses a totally different format.

Everyone, this model has been paid for by me. You may use the converted model that I have on my Florida Gold project if you like...but only for this game. Funny thing is I was thinking of pulling it from that map. It looks awkward without a dock. Maybe I should build a dock for it. Just placing the thing in the map as a decoration won’t work, as the game won’t save decorations when a player saves and wants to come back later and play, only to find all the decorations gone when they return to their saved game.

Commercial projects don’t require me to advertise the artist’s email and address, likewise TurboSquid isn’t likely to come here and post something. Those models you are talking about at Content Paradise are much different. None-the-less, the artist's name will be in the new update when complete.

You are either a concrete wall or a politician, neither of which are worth trying to have an inteligent discussion with.

What part of the conversation did you not understand when I said I purchased a license? Over and over.

Here is the correct page that will describe to you what rights a buyer has.

http://www.turbosquid.com/EULAFAQEnglish

However...just in case...I have a trouble ticket in at TurboSquid. This will answer the question for everyone.
Have a nice day...

[snoopy55]

Why are you choosing to attack this person after he has dropped this converstaion...not here to reply?

Everyone, this model has been paid for by me. You may use the converted model that I have on my Florida Gold project if you like...but only for this game.

Our goal is to allow you the most possible flexibility in using purchased models while protecting the interests of the model’s creator and the model’s future sales. Accordingly, when you are publishing, selling, or otherwise distributing your final product you cannot distribute the purchased model in a file format that is usable by any 3d application. The purchased model has to be incorporated into your final product in a manner that the end user of it cannot access the purchased model itself.

Simply put, you CAN use it, but it has to be done in a form that no one else can use it, IE: EXE file for both the map and the data. BUT, as stated in the License Agreement for the game, once you make anything having to do with this game, it becomes the property of 2K/Firaxis. So, in effect, you're giving it away.

As to that need for a dock..where have you been? Your's is the ONLY map that does not have a dock...... Use one of thiers.

And what did your reply have to do with the quote of what Rockynarrowgauge said? I believe what he meant there was that like a concrete wall, discussing/arguing with you gets a person the same as butting your head against a concrete wall, a headache. And the politition part probably had to do with the fact that polititions always seem to try to deal a point in one of two ways....running around the subject with discussions that make no sense, or quickly changing the subject, which you have done in other threads in this forum.

As to your 'license' point,

What part of the conversation did you not understand when I said I purchased a license? Over and over.

do a search of your own posts. You only mention 'license' a total of 3 times, twice in the last post and once in a previous post in this same thread. There is no 'Over and over.'

However...just in case...I have a trouble ticket in at TurboSquid. This will answer the question for everyone.

I hope to see the reply to that posted here, whatever the reply may be.

Basicly the whole thing comes down to how you posted what you posted. You made no statement as to where you got that stuff from, only that they were your new things that you were making, not that they were things you had gotten by purchasing them and you were adapting them for this game. You looked a little odd having nice pictures and yet you did not have them usable yet? And those graphics in no way would have worked in SMR, they were to detailed, which, by the way did not have the name of the site you got them from, which all sites put on thier pictures, Even the Tanker, you did not admit having purchased it until you were backed into a corner.

Lowell, all you have to do is say "I purchased these models from such-and-such a place amd am converting them to run on SMR". That is the main thing with me, and probably with Rockynarrowgauge, you stated you were creating them. Tell me, what would your opinion be if you worked days on end to get a Passenger Steam Engine, Tender and matching Passenger Cars created from scratch, and someone else later took you stuff, changed the skin, and stated that they had worked for 'days on end' to create them from scratch?