Multiplayer skills
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Mulligan22
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:02 pm
Multiplayer skills
After playing this game online it appears to me a few folks are much better than others. To the point where perhaps they can somehow cheat. I've sat back and watched a few people with 4 or less trains and not much else generate huge revenue on the finance screen, whereas observing play on the main screen I don't see how they are making so much money. Especially compared to other players. I've watched from the start of the game and they somehow come up with more money than the other players quickly no matter how small their starting city is and lack of nearby resources. Maybe I'm way off here, but it's odd to see one guy rake in the money whereas the other players are much closer to each other in value, growth, trains and industry ownership.
No, if I remember right its as simple as editing the xmls. I think, the SMR clients tell each other now they are all doing and each one believes each other.Lowell wrote:There isn't god mode codes for this game is there? Maybe he is giving him/herself money?
Man that stinks, if you are going to play with a team of others...why cheat? To me that just seems stupid...ppffhhh...go figure.
A lot of it is how you play. If you go onto UT2K4 servers like I do, you can get your *** shot off, but I enjoy it. Then again, I can go in sometimes and win, win ,win. The others are not cheating, they just play better. If someone knows how to make money fast on a certain map, he's going to do it. Many times I've played a game, even against AIs and look up to see I have 1 or 2 million. I go searching for Industries to buy and long tracks to lay, and stock to buy. We don't all play the same way. Some are good, some are better and some are the best.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....
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Mulligan22
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:02 pm
skills
Yes it's possible they are good players, which they are. But the money they earn flows in faster than it should. With fewer resources to pull it in from. I've watched a few players who start in a small town with little resources nearby and they just earn a lot of money that I can't see how it's possible. They are able to lay more track without running out of money. I just didn't realize it was possible to cheat in this game which is why I am skeptical.
I've not played online, but if you can, click on your track lay and look over the persons line. You should see what they are doing to gain it. In playing solo, I've layed a long circular passenger line that fills the route screen. 1 or 2 stops at a time of course, but I get it there, and work goods while I'm at it. And if I see a competitor dropping loads of goods into an industry, I make sure I have the money and buy that industry. Most, not all, of the time, the AI keeps right on shipping. I know in online they wouldn't do that, I hope not at least, but it helps. I also try to buy an Industry before I start shipping to it, which give me a lower price.
If you think there is cheating going on, get with someone you know, not someone you think is cheating, and have them make changes in thier map and see what happens.....
If you think there is cheating going on, get with someone you know, not someone you think is cheating, and have them make changes in thier map and see what happens.....
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....
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CalmDragon
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One tactic I use to get more money faster is to see what annex's the other guy is building to. Then I put the industry up for auction after he builds a train to it. They are usually low on cash at this point and I can pick up the industry. That will increase my cash flow everytime he delivers to it, or sells a product from that industry.
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Mulligan22
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:02 pm
Somethings' fishy
This happened to me recently. I was playing a multiplayer game against one person who I'd played before. He was always able to generate more money faster than anyone else playing each time I played him.
From the begining I ran a track from my starting point to a nearby city and started passenger/mail service between the two. He ran a track from his starting city to my starting city, placed a small station, deleted the track back to his starting city. He then ran a track to the same city I had run one to and started a train with passenger/mail service competing with mine. I began to lose money and he was making money. Even though both of his stations were the small 50K ones and my starting one was the fully expanded one with the other one a 50K station.
From the begining I ran a track from my starting point to a nearby city and started passenger/mail service between the two. He ran a track from his starting city to my starting city, placed a small station, deleted the track back to his starting city. He then ran a track to the same city I had run one to and started a train with passenger/mail service competing with mine. I began to lose money and he was making money. Even though both of his stations were the small 50K ones and my starting one was the fully expanded one with the other one a 50K station.
Mulligan22 - were you looking to see if maybe he wasn't getting passengers and you weren't? I can run a 4 car train to a Grain Farm and back to the city, but if each time I return to the Farm there is only 1 car of Grain, that's all I get. If he were to start his train just before you got to the station, and the trains were running at about the same speed, you'd be getting nothing.
When things like this happen, don't make your first thought,'Is he cheating and how is he doing it?', try thinking, 'What could he be doing without cheating to cause this to happen?'.
When things like this happen, don't make your first thought,'Is he cheating and how is he doing it?', try thinking, 'What could he be doing without cheating to cause this to happen?'.
I'm correct 97% of the time..... who cares about the other 4%....
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Mulligan22
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:02 pm
skills
My first thought was what am I doing different than him. In this case we were running two identical passenger/mail trains to the same two cities. The only difference was he had spent more money to lay the track and both his stations were the smallest ones. Whereas I had one small and one fully upgraded. It was my starting point. I don't know how it would be possible to actually cheat in this game, but I do see some funny things from a small group of players at times.
It is easy to be good at this game. The first thing to do is when you first start look at all of you surrounding cities and connect all of them two at a time deleting tracks as you go from city to city. Make sure the tracks are as short as possible laying them just to the edge of the green circle. Spend all of your money connecting city to city for just delivering passangers and mail. Then start making supplies with any available goods. Also always use all of your cars when you deliver it makes it more faster getting from city to city.
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darthdroid
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:42 am
Re: Multiplayer skills
I know this is an old post, but clearly it never got resolved with any large measure of online knowledge, so I'm gonna try to resolve it for those who are still interested.
First of all I must say I'm intrigued about the "just change the XML" stuff....can you really do that? Like change how much you get paid for x or whatever? Can one really cheat like that?
I've played well over a 1000 games online, maybe more. I've only seen what I believe was cheating 2 times. One was recently and I cannot explain that one, thus why I asked about the XML issue.
In other words, I've played hundreds of online games with hundreds of players, dozens with many of them.
There is indeed ONE cheat that essentially creates a very large amount of cash quickly. But we're talking ridiculously quickly, like $4,000,000 in about 30 seconds. So you know if it's happening immediately and it's also easy to spot if you examine their trains. No, I will not say what it is because we don't want something like that in the hands of the wrong people, it would wreck the game. So far only a handful of people know about it and hopefully they keep their mouth shut so it doesn't wreck every third game.
Now, I mean literally, less than 10 people I'd say know about it. Again, in 2 years, I've seen it used less than 5 times in a game.
That aside....NO, it is highly unlikely (unless the XML thing is happening, cannot comment on that) that you witnessed cheating. I am a very seasoned player and frequently am at 10x the revenue of other players by mid-game. It is pretty easy to be at double the other players within the first 5 minutes.
So how does this happen? First, starting points are irrelevant, I probably abandon my start city 1 out of 10 games ... I don't even use it, never come back to it, never build off it, just a lonely terminal sitting there.
There are about a hundred tricks in this game.
Example, someone asked "they had the same track length, same cities yet they made money and I lost it.
All I can say here (to avoid giving out too many secrets) is that a variety of subtle factors add up to create something like this: Different engines. I frequently come in with a different engine....and because of how I set it up and which engine I use (and which one they are using) I can drain their train dry and mine makes 100k/year....theres goes to -50k/year. These are just tactics not cheats. Using a different engine (the RIGHT engine) is NOT a cheat, it's simply superior knowledge of the game and maps. There is also track. It might look the same but is it??? Grade is very important in the grade, a little bit of difference can go a long way. And in the scenario you described, I doubt they were the same length. For starters, you said you started there, this indicates your train used the starting track which is VERY long....Pirates know how to make short tracks, so if you were using the start track, you already had an extra mile of track just at the station....a Mile can make a huge difference after 5 runs with each train. You'd be surprised how much it all adds up.
It's like picking up pennies...pretty soon you have dollars. Seriously, the good players combine a multitude of tricks and tactics that perhaps the other player does not know. All these little tricks (there are dozens) really add up. I can easily move into an operation another player set up and suck almost every dime out of it with superior tactics. I can take almost every dollar they were making away ... UNLESS they too have pirate skills, then they wouldn't be in that vulnerable situation in the first place....
Also, the good players joke around about this : "you know how you know you're good? By how often you get accused of cheating lol" And it's true, these are considered badges of honor by the good players, or at least many of them. The foolish players assume cheating when they don't understand how it happens, the wise players ask questions, and most of us are happy to explain and train. After all, it's more fun with MORE good players in the game. Many a night have I sat for 1-3 hours training a noob on a dozen or so basic tricks that will quintuple their profits.
The reason many people don't get this is because they've only played a handful of online games.... You can't learn these tricks by playing the AI, again, (this is my mantra) the computer is a moron. If you base your tactics on what you learned in the tutorial....the seasoned players and pirates will easily have 4-10x your revenue within 15 minutes on most maps (Northwest would be an exception for example).
I hope this helps, but don't think the good players are cheating, they are not 99% of the time. Yes it happens, but it's ridiculously rare. However, many noobs think using bridges is cheating, even though when you click "lay track" or (T) it TELLS you how to change elevation of track, ie it aint a glitch, its a built in intended tactic. And I don't care if you don't like 30 degree tracks, the game has a limit feature built in (it says "grade too steep" when it's too steep) so this too is not a glitch, the game steps away from reality a bit on purpose and it's better to roll with it than whine when the other guy uses what the game gave him. Many players (including myself in the past) consider tracksneaking cheating. But the best counterargument is: Well, the computer ALWAYS does it (true) so it must be legal. So all so-called cheating in the game is generally a subjective view based on ignorance of the usefulness of a particular tactic, it's not an actual cheat.
The only cheat (previously mentioned) is a glitch, it's not intended, it's not a code and it can only be executed online but it's so easy to spot .... all you have to do is look at their trains and you'll know immediately that it's bogus. Past that, there's no codes, no ways to cheat that I know of or have seen after a good 1,000 online games. And again, take note that I've only called "cheater" 2 times in all those games. The first time was when I discovered the previously mentioned cheat glitch. The second time was recently when a very lousy player beat me and it just wasn't possible .... he made money even though trains were not entering stations and he owned no industries, etc.
Point being that I investigate VERY carefully before even considering cheating, much less accusing it.
There is a lot more to this game than you think if you never play online. You simply won't see this stuff unless you play advanced or at least moderate online players. And that is what you're missing. That and the belief that 50 little tricks you don't know add up to major destruction of the other guy.
Sorry it's so wordy but I don't want you modders to be afraid to play online, so I'm being overly thorough.
First of all I must say I'm intrigued about the "just change the XML" stuff....can you really do that? Like change how much you get paid for x or whatever? Can one really cheat like that?
I've played well over a 1000 games online, maybe more. I've only seen what I believe was cheating 2 times. One was recently and I cannot explain that one, thus why I asked about the XML issue.
In other words, I've played hundreds of online games with hundreds of players, dozens with many of them.
There is indeed ONE cheat that essentially creates a very large amount of cash quickly. But we're talking ridiculously quickly, like $4,000,000 in about 30 seconds. So you know if it's happening immediately and it's also easy to spot if you examine their trains. No, I will not say what it is because we don't want something like that in the hands of the wrong people, it would wreck the game. So far only a handful of people know about it and hopefully they keep their mouth shut so it doesn't wreck every third game.
Now, I mean literally, less than 10 people I'd say know about it. Again, in 2 years, I've seen it used less than 5 times in a game.
That aside....NO, it is highly unlikely (unless the XML thing is happening, cannot comment on that) that you witnessed cheating. I am a very seasoned player and frequently am at 10x the revenue of other players by mid-game. It is pretty easy to be at double the other players within the first 5 minutes.
So how does this happen? First, starting points are irrelevant, I probably abandon my start city 1 out of 10 games ... I don't even use it, never come back to it, never build off it, just a lonely terminal sitting there.
There are about a hundred tricks in this game.
Example, someone asked "they had the same track length, same cities yet they made money and I lost it.
All I can say here (to avoid giving out too many secrets) is that a variety of subtle factors add up to create something like this: Different engines. I frequently come in with a different engine....and because of how I set it up and which engine I use (and which one they are using) I can drain their train dry and mine makes 100k/year....theres goes to -50k/year. These are just tactics not cheats. Using a different engine (the RIGHT engine) is NOT a cheat, it's simply superior knowledge of the game and maps. There is also track. It might look the same but is it??? Grade is very important in the grade, a little bit of difference can go a long way. And in the scenario you described, I doubt they were the same length. For starters, you said you started there, this indicates your train used the starting track which is VERY long....Pirates know how to make short tracks, so if you were using the start track, you already had an extra mile of track just at the station....a Mile can make a huge difference after 5 runs with each train. You'd be surprised how much it all adds up.
It's like picking up pennies...pretty soon you have dollars. Seriously, the good players combine a multitude of tricks and tactics that perhaps the other player does not know. All these little tricks (there are dozens) really add up. I can easily move into an operation another player set up and suck almost every dime out of it with superior tactics. I can take almost every dollar they were making away ... UNLESS they too have pirate skills, then they wouldn't be in that vulnerable situation in the first place....
Also, the good players joke around about this : "you know how you know you're good? By how often you get accused of cheating lol" And it's true, these are considered badges of honor by the good players, or at least many of them. The foolish players assume cheating when they don't understand how it happens, the wise players ask questions, and most of us are happy to explain and train. After all, it's more fun with MORE good players in the game. Many a night have I sat for 1-3 hours training a noob on a dozen or so basic tricks that will quintuple their profits.
The reason many people don't get this is because they've only played a handful of online games.... You can't learn these tricks by playing the AI, again, (this is my mantra) the computer is a moron. If you base your tactics on what you learned in the tutorial....the seasoned players and pirates will easily have 4-10x your revenue within 15 minutes on most maps (Northwest would be an exception for example).
I hope this helps, but don't think the good players are cheating, they are not 99% of the time. Yes it happens, but it's ridiculously rare. However, many noobs think using bridges is cheating, even though when you click "lay track" or (T) it TELLS you how to change elevation of track, ie it aint a glitch, its a built in intended tactic. And I don't care if you don't like 30 degree tracks, the game has a limit feature built in (it says "grade too steep" when it's too steep) so this too is not a glitch, the game steps away from reality a bit on purpose and it's better to roll with it than whine when the other guy uses what the game gave him. Many players (including myself in the past) consider tracksneaking cheating. But the best counterargument is: Well, the computer ALWAYS does it (true) so it must be legal. So all so-called cheating in the game is generally a subjective view based on ignorance of the usefulness of a particular tactic, it's not an actual cheat.
The only cheat (previously mentioned) is a glitch, it's not intended, it's not a code and it can only be executed online but it's so easy to spot .... all you have to do is look at their trains and you'll know immediately that it's bogus. Past that, there's no codes, no ways to cheat that I know of or have seen after a good 1,000 online games. And again, take note that I've only called "cheater" 2 times in all those games. The first time was when I discovered the previously mentioned cheat glitch. The second time was recently when a very lousy player beat me and it just wasn't possible .... he made money even though trains were not entering stations and he owned no industries, etc.
Point being that I investigate VERY carefully before even considering cheating, much less accusing it.
There is a lot more to this game than you think if you never play online. You simply won't see this stuff unless you play advanced or at least moderate online players. And that is what you're missing. That and the belief that 50 little tricks you don't know add up to major destruction of the other guy.
Sorry it's so wordy but I don't want you modders to be afraid to play online, so I'm being overly thorough.
-Bob the Lunatic
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darthdroid
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:42 am
Re: Multiplayer skills
Imagine that, I have yet more to say...
2 good points I forgot to make:
1/ You're used to playing the AI right? Well that's like going from a high school sports team to the Olympics and wondering why you're getting the crap kicked out of you. Keep in mind: Some of us play online every single day.... and have been doing so for YEARS (2 in my case). I know the game seems simple enough.... but I still learn new things...and you don't learn them from the AI you learn them from other clever players. These things we pick up month after month after month really do add up and that is what you saw. If you play AI it's like playing in a bubble and then you walked out into the open arena and got creamed...that's most likely what happened, pure and simple.
2/ There again are many tactics that if you don't know about them, you also may not see them.
For example: Let's say a guys running steel and bombs and other goodies from point A to B. If it's a nasty player...sometimes I use the subway trick which hardly any can pull off successfully. The track is completely underground, there is NO trace of it anywhere at either city or in between them (it's INVISIBLE), and then I lay 2 more with it and plant 3 trains which proceed to bleed both cities dry.
You cannot see the 3 trains. All you can see is my stations and frankly were talking about metropoli here...they kind of blend into these huge cities packed with buildings....we generally get alarmed by tracks....not stations. All the other player knows is that suddenly I have a boost and his revenue dropped profusely..... See what I mean? There are loads and loads of tactics, that's just one that I really really doubt you would have figured out as a big source of the revenue you saw....even the savvy online players don't see that one coming, and how could they? It's invisible for pete's sake! The only trace of it is that you cannot find 3 trains on the map and someone is stealing all your stuff....putting 2 and 2 together obviously a subway is involved and you better deal with it quick.
Anyway hope that helps a little more in the realm of online playing and how subtle some of the tricks are...
2 good points I forgot to make:
1/ You're used to playing the AI right? Well that's like going from a high school sports team to the Olympics and wondering why you're getting the crap kicked out of you. Keep in mind: Some of us play online every single day.... and have been doing so for YEARS (2 in my case). I know the game seems simple enough.... but I still learn new things...and you don't learn them from the AI you learn them from other clever players. These things we pick up month after month after month really do add up and that is what you saw. If you play AI it's like playing in a bubble and then you walked out into the open arena and got creamed...that's most likely what happened, pure and simple.
2/ There again are many tactics that if you don't know about them, you also may not see them.
For example: Let's say a guys running steel and bombs and other goodies from point A to B. If it's a nasty player...sometimes I use the subway trick which hardly any can pull off successfully. The track is completely underground, there is NO trace of it anywhere at either city or in between them (it's INVISIBLE), and then I lay 2 more with it and plant 3 trains which proceed to bleed both cities dry.
You cannot see the 3 trains. All you can see is my stations and frankly were talking about metropoli here...they kind of blend into these huge cities packed with buildings....we generally get alarmed by tracks....not stations. All the other player knows is that suddenly I have a boost and his revenue dropped profusely..... See what I mean? There are loads and loads of tactics, that's just one that I really really doubt you would have figured out as a big source of the revenue you saw....even the savvy online players don't see that one coming, and how could they? It's invisible for pete's sake! The only trace of it is that you cannot find 3 trains on the map and someone is stealing all your stuff....putting 2 and 2 together obviously a subway is involved and you better deal with it quick.
Anyway hope that helps a little more in the realm of online playing and how subtle some of the tricks are...
-Bob the Lunatic